should i be afraid of the DCT ?

[KrisZ]

I agree, can't blame the consumer for a failed attempt at implementation.
In Europe the operation may be easily explained to an average driver as they are used to driving manual transmissions and operating a clutch, the catch is that most of them will turn around and buy a manual anyways.

In NA if you try to explain that your fancy DCT requires special driving attention to a customer that most likely never operated a manual tranny, they will turn around and go to a competitor.

 

[StevieC]

Edyvw, it's up to the car company to educate the consumers buying its products or they can pay out the warranty claims and have their brand tarnished if assumptions are made about how the vehicle will be operated.

It's fine that they want to come out with Fancy Pants transmissions but the customer should know what they are buying and how to operate it before leaving the showroom floor, not simple left up to well they should have read the owners manual which doesn't take place when someone if signing for a car.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by KrisZ
I agree, can't blame the consumer for a failed attempt at implementation.
In Europe the operation may be easily explained to an average driver as they are used to driving manual transmissions and operating a clutch, the catch is that most of them will turn around and buy a manual anyways.

In NA if you try to explain that your fancy DCT requires special driving attention to a customer that most likely never operated a manual tranny, they will turn around and go to a competitor.


I think those people are not targeted audience.
VW offers DSG in numerous models in Europe. In the NA they only brought handful models with DSG. I think they are aware of that.
For example, Chinese market gets new VW Atlas with 2.5 VR6 turbo engine and 7 speed DSG. Us market gets naturally aspirated VR6 and 8 speed automatic.
Not that VW and other companies never made mistake of overestimating sophistication of drivers here.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by StevieC
Edyvw, it's up to the car company to educate the consumers buying its products or they can pay our the warranty claims and have their brand tarnished if assumptions are made about how the vehicle will be operated.

All that is in manual and provided to consumer.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by StevieC
Edyvw, it's up to the car company to educate the consumers buying its products or they can pay our the warranty claims and have their brand tarnished if assumptions are made about how the vehicle will be operated.

All that is in manual and provided to consumer.


It's fine that they want to come out with Fancy Pants transmissions but the customer should know what they are buying and how to operate it before leaving the showroom floor, not simple left up to well they should have read the owners manual which doesn't take place when someone if signing for a car. Especially when it's not conventional technology and might require extra care to make it last.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by StevieC
Edyvw, it's up to the car company to educate the consumers buying its products or they can pay our the warranty claims and have their brand tarnished if assumptions are made about how the vehicle will be operated.

All that is in manual and provided to consumer.


It's fine that they want to come out with Fancy Pants transmissions but the customer should know what they are buying and how to operate it before leaving the showroom floor, not simple left up to well they should have read the owners manual which doesn't take place when someone if signing for a car. Especially when it's not conventional technology and might require extra care to make it last.

Well, consumer can always sue company and say: sorry, I was too dumb!
VW actually has spreadsheet for customers when is what require to do.
Last time I checked, they are not in business to teach people how to read.

 

[SZR48207]

To further the point about consumer ignorance: When CVTs first came out, drivers complained that they didn't feel like automatics with the sensation of gear changes.

So now the CVTs are programmed to mimic a shift, even though that makes absolutely no sense. Once again, consumer ignorance creates demands that are completely illogical.

The US car buying market frankly doesn't deserve technology because people keep wanting everything to feel like a GM Hydromatic of the 40s.

 

[WhyMe]

Originally Posted by MParr
Ford DCT: YES be afraid! My dad had a 2012 Ford Focus. The car was perfect except for the DCT. He unloaded it after one year.

Hyundai DCT: YES be afraid. A friend of mine is a Hyundai master tech. He had an AWD Tucson with the DCT. He unloaded it and does not recommend.

VW: ?


and that is the difficult thing. its hard to find a tucson size suv that does not have a CVT or DCT trans.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by WhyMe
Originally Posted by MParr
Ford DCT: YES be afraid! My dad had a 2012 Ford Focus. The car was perfect except for the DCT. He unloaded it after one year.

Hyundai DCT: YES be afraid. A friend of mine is a Hyundai master tech. He had an AWD Tucson with the DCT. He unloaded it and does not recommend.

VW: ?


and that is the difficult thing. its hard to find a tucson size suv that does not have a CVT or DCT trans.

No it's not. VW offers Tiguan with 8 speed Aisin transmission. Same transmission as in Toyota, made by Toyota, has huge issues in Toyota vehicles, but not in VW.

 

[sloinker]

The biggest issue with driving a DCT is at low speeds. You sometimes get some delay while the computer decides what you are asking and depending on how the transmission LEARNED to react to the situation. It will then react, sometimes in a strange manner compared to any other type automatic. VW DSG's do actually learn the driving traits of it's operator. If you are driving aggressively at speeds above ten miles an hour then there isn't a crisper, faster shifting transmission available. Part of VW's bad rap with DCT/DSG trannys has to do with volume. When you build millions of units and thousands have issues the volume of the complaints seems high, especially on social media. I tend to believe that the number of issues with VW DSG's as a percentage of the whole is in line with the mainstream failure rates of automatic transmissions as a whole and much likely better than many.

 

[benjy]

like all newer technology used today it takes time + lots of miles to really know the reliability or not of it. i am a manual guy but a conventional automatic would be my next choice. CVT's are last IMO + unproven in higher mileage use, DCT depending on application should be better but BUT long term upkeep + possible repairs can be very costly. i add the hard to avoid direct injection as an example, it works as intended but sooner or later you MAY need a $$$$$ valve cleaning which is why some manufacturers are starting to use both port + DI. the more tech the more possible issues IMO. research + learn!

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted by edyvw
If DCT in Hyundai is not engaging, I wonder what is the point of that DCT and whether that was the way to eliminate potential problems.

Pretty sure he was talking about the feeling of moving the PRND selector, i.e. it's obviously just a button rather than a big switch thing that makes satisfying clunks. Don't think he was talking about the feeling of driving, or else we probably wouldn't be talking about this kind of vehicle.

OP, in the absence of any real data, I'd say JTK's point about the warranty makes a lot of sense. Although most automatic transmissions will be suspect as the miles pile on, Hyundai's warranty speaks volumes about their confidence. IME it's rare that products with long warranties don't have lifespans to match. It does happen, as I discovered with my last car, but it's the exception, not the rule.

Also, DCTs are a pretty mature technology by now.

Not sure what my opinion is worth, as I personally wouldn't go near either a 2-pedal transmission of any kind or a crossover/SUV of any kind. But if I had to pick one for whatever reason, DCT longevity wouldn't be a factor in my decision, especially from Hyundai.

 

[Propflux01]

Originally Posted by WhyMe


and that is the difficult thing. its hard to find a tucson size suv that does not have a CVT or DCT trans.


The 2018 tuscon was the last of the hyundai DCT Trannys. The 2019's went back to the 6 speed auto.

 

[maxdustington]

Originally Posted by edyvw
No it's not. VW offers Tiguan with 8 speed Aisin transmission. Same transmission as in Toyota, made by Toyota, has huge issues in Toyota vehicles, but not in VW.
But...but...but it's a VW! They are unreliable!

 

[wbwanzer]

I have a Golf GTI with the DSG and like it. Car only has 10,000 miles on it, but no problems so far. When driving lazily around town the shifts are kind of lazy. But if you put your foot into it, it snaps off those shifts almost instantly.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by maxdustington
Originally Posted by edyvw
No it's not. VW offers Tiguan with 8 speed Aisin transmission. Same transmission as in Toyota, made by Toyota, has huge issues in Toyota vehicles, but not in VW.
But...but...but it's a VW! They are unreliable!

Oh yeah. I forgot I should have unreliable vehicle. I really have to talk to my VW about this.

 

[SZR48207]

Originally Posted by wbwanzer
I have a Golf GTI with the DSG and like it. Car only has 10,000 miles on it, but no problems so far. When driving lazily around town the shifts are kind of lazy. But if you put your foot into it, it snaps off those shifts almost instantly.


As long as you aren't using the gas pedal to hold yourself on hills, or driving in such a manner that the DSG can't prepare the next gear then you're going to be fine.

 

[skyactiv]

Originally Posted by Propflux01
Originally Posted by WhyMe


and that is the difficult thing. its hard to find a tucson size suv that does not have a CVT or DCT trans.


The 2018 tuscon was the last of the hyundai DCT Trannys. The 2019's went back to the 6 speed auto.


Hyundai still uses the 7 speed DCT in the 2019 Elantra Eco and as an option in the Elantra Sport.

Hyundai underrates MPG numbers because of the 100 million dollar EPA fine they got hit with. Consumers Reports got the best highway gas mileage ever in a non hybrid
gas car with the Elantra Eco when they first tested it. They are hard to find on dealer lots however.

 

[spk2000]

Unless it has changed VW was using the same ZF transmission that BMW and Mercedes uses. We supplied parts and they told us the same one used in all these brands but each OE can program them differently.

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted by spk2000
Unless it has changed VW was using the same ZF transmission that BMW and Mercedes uses. We supplied parts and they told us the same one used in all these brands but each OE can program them differently.

VW uses Borg-Warner and Aisin.

There were a few cars with the ZF 5HP (B5 Passat) and ZF 6HP (Phaeton) but that was some time ago.