Servicing a propane fireplace

[Snagglefoot]

I was wondering if we have some propane and natural gas fireplace experts. I have a Regency propane fireplace that Is not being cooperative. I did some servicing on it and used sandpaper to clean up the thermocouple and thermopile as well as the burner head and ignitor head. There is some light rust on the burner head.

I changed out the double A battery and was able to get a strong spark on the igniter. The pilot lighter and spark control are integral: In the pilot position push half way to feed gas and push the rest of the way to get it sparking. I did get the pilot to light but only once when I released the knob did the pilot stay lit. The rest of the time it went out. The one time it stayed lit I was able to turn the fireplace on at the wall controller and it lit up completely.

The system has propane gas and the gas line is teed from my main gas feed to my boiler which is functioning fine.

My question is, when the instructions recommend cleaning the thermocouple and thermo pile how are you supposed to clean them? Should some sort of chemical be used?

While holding down the knob in the ignitor position the flame hits both the thermocouple and thermopile fairly well.

Changing out the thermocouple and thermopile is a bear on this unit because they are mounted on a plate that is mounted in such a way that the plate cannot be lifted out. It looked like it was mounted in the factory to be unable to pull it out. I tried it a few years ago and was stumped.

Anyway, the last thing I did was one more cleaning attempt and now the igniter will not spark. I can hear the clicking but the spark is not jumping to the burner head. I’m taking a break. Any ideas? Thanks.

 

[Snagglefoot]

This is a pic of my unit. It’s 13 years old.

 

[Donald]

I was wondering if we have some propane and natural gas fireplace experts. I have a Regency propane fireplace that Is not being cooperative. I did some servicing on it and used sandpaper to clean up the thermocouple and thermopile as well as the burner head and ignitor head. There is some light rust on the burner head.

I changed out the double A battery and was able to get a strong spark on the igniter. The pilot lighter and spark control are integral: In the pilot position push half way to feed gas and push the rest of the way to get it sparking. I did get the pilot to light but only once when I released the knob the pilot stay lit. The rest of the time it went out.

The system has propane gas and the gas line is teed from my main gas feed to my boiler which is functioning fine.

My question is, when the instructions recommend cleaning the thermocouple and thermos file. How are you supposed to clean them? Should some sort of chemical be used?

Changing out the thermocouple and thermopile is a bear on this unit because they are mounted on a plate that is mounted in such a way that the plate cannot be lifted out. It looked like it was mounted in the factory to be unable to pull it out. I tried it a few years ago and was stumped.

Anyway, the last thing I did was one more cleaning attempt and now the igniter would not spark. I can hear the clicking but the spark is not jumping to the burner head. I’m taking a break. Thanks.

My propane fireplace has two battery holders. One for the receiver of the remote and one to power the igniter during a power failure. But you don't normally put batteries in the one of the igniter. Leave it empty unless there is a power failure. Normally AC powers the igniter and fan. Obviously fireplaces can be designed differently from mine.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Hi - my propane fireplace has two battery holders. One for the receiver of the remote and one to power the igniter during a power failure. But you don't normally put batteries in the one of the igniter. Leave it empty unless there is a power failure. Normally AC powers the igniter and fan. Obviously fireplaces can be designed differently from mine.

On my unit only the fan is powered by AC, and it does not turn on until the temp sensor at the fireplace gets hot enough for the fan to come on. The power is controlled by a switch next to the wall thermostat. It didn’t come with a remote unfortunately.

 

[BISCUT]

Hi - my propane fireplace has two battery holders. One for the receiver of the remote and one to power the igniter during a power failure. But you don't normally put batteries in the one of the igniter. Leave it empty unless there is a power failure. Normally AC powers the igniter and fan. Obviously fireplaces can be designed differently from mine.

I have a 3-year-old Mendota, and it sounds like a similar arrangement.

 

[BISCUT]

@Snagglefoot Glad you posted. I'd like to hear more about the maintenance of these units. Mine has been a lifesaver.

 

[repairman54]

Thermocouples can get weak over time. Cleaning is only for removing a carbon build up from dust or a dirty pilot. If pilot has a good flame hitting the thermocouple end it getting it hot then it may be bad. They are cheap enough.
If you hear spark but its not arcing at the electrode end then check the wire to it. Its no different than a spark plug wire in a car. Common issue in gas stove with spark ignition also.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

Not for fireplace but I had a LP pool heater. The thermocouple would need to put enough MV to open the pilot light gas tube/valve and then main gas valve. I had to replace that a couple times.

My wife's cousin has a NG boiler same scenario. The thermocouple went bad a couple times not keeping pilot lit. The last time I did it the plumbing supply house didn't want to sell me it so "un-qualified/un-licensed" user didn't play with gas and go boom. I had already traced through and metered all the safety's and all were good. Only issues was Pilot would not stay lit. 2 choices at that point, thermocouple or main gas valve which is a PITA to change and expensive. Home Depot did have the thermocouple, I bought 3. The other 2 on her boiler room wall just in case for future. Not expensive as stated.

Maybe some YT videos now on how to change that on your brand easiest?

 

[Geekhead]

i have a gas fireplace about 25 years old and it uses a flame sensing rod, you can sand all the white gas deposits off it but it must always be in contact with the flame. It works by allowing conduction of electrical current through the flame and the rod to work, it must be really clean. Also wipe rod with alcohol to remove sandpaper deposits.

 

[repairman54]

i have a gas fireplace about 25 years old and it uses a flame sensing rod, you can sand all the white gas deposits off it but it must always be in contact with the flame. It works by allowing conduction of electrical current through the flame and the rod to work, it must be really clean. Also wipe rod with alcohol to remove sandpaper deposits.

That's also how some of todays gas stove ignitions work. Conducts through the flame to shut off electronic spark module in units without a switch on the burner valve.

 

[mk378]

There is a little slot in the pilot light tube that must be clear. Blow out all the parts of the pilot assembly with compressed air. It is designed so that should the pilot light burn improperly (due to lack of oxygen in the room) the flame will lift away from the thermopile and cause the gas valve to shut down. This shutdown will also happen if the air passage is clogged with dust.

The tip of the thermopile should be noticeably red hot while in operation. As noted they can get weak and not produce enough electricity. It's important for all electrical connections to be clean and tight. The system runs on less than 1/2 volt of electricity; there is not much to spare to bad connections.

If the sparker is not working you can light it with a match. The AA battery and spark generator is only involved in initial lighting. Once lit the valve operates on the millivolts from the thermopile.

 

[D60]

I have LIMITED experience as I only deal with such things when forced to as a homeowner, but any time I've had a pilot refuse to stay lit, it's a thermocouple.

My boiler is VERY picky and it can look like it's in the flame, but it's not quite right -- figured that one out from a local plumber when I had to call because my replacement position was wrong, but at least I learned something there.

 

[Paco Pena]

Where is Hank Hill when you need him?

 

[Snagglefoot]

I got back to work and this time I used
P800 black sandpaper by putting it around each sensor and giving it a “ towel rubbing “ back and forth. That did it. It fired up from the igniter, it stayed on after holding down the igniter valve half way. I actually held it down enough to maximize the flame without actuating the igniter itself. I then turned it to on and it stayed on. I flipped the switch to allow the wall electronic thermostat to control it on and off. It’s doing it’s thing. Thanks for the tips. I guess the answer is to photograph the fake wood, move it aside to give yourself more room then sand everything with the black garnet paper. Mine happened to be P800.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Here are a few shots. I forgot to mention I used my gas detector to check for gas when the igniter wasn’t carrying the spark over. The gas was there. It was such a small amount for the pilot that I couldn’t smell it. The final shot is the fireplace with everything back in place. Thanks everyone!

 

[carl2591]

the biggest thing we found when servicing LP fireplaces was the ones that keep teh pilot on year around the thermocouple tips would get burned off.. LP is way hotter than NG buy a long shot.. Plus over time the pilot orifice would get stuff in them and not allow as much gas as needed.. Like in the picture of the pilot above you should have 3 nice flame tips that come off the head like 3/8" or so..

some time we would after vacuuming off the burner and doing the green scrubby pad on the large round thermopiles and thermocouple we tried to suck the pilot head out. that helped with the flow at times but if not you see the silver wire thing below the flame and the hat?? you pull that back or off and with some pliers gently try to pull the pilot head off.. I would rock them a bit and pull up.. a shot of wd 40 can help as well.. when we got the head off I would blow in the tube.. I would use a long needle to gently poke around to get the hole open .. gotta be care not to make the hole larger..

 

[Snagglefoot]

Late breaking news. After running the fireplace for an hour and experimenting withe the digital wall mounted thermostat, I turned the thermostat down but the pilot went out some time after that. I am planning on getting a mV reading on the thermocouple. I tried an 8 mm open end wrench on the nut. Too small. A 10 mm wrench is to big. A 3/8 inch ( approx 9.5 mm) is also too big. Apparently I’m looking for a 9 mm wrench!

 

[Snagglefoot]

Here is photo showing the gas connection to to the pilot and off to the lower right is the thermal couple connection.

 

[Arc]

There is a little slot in the pilot light tube that must be clear. Blow out all the parts of the pilot assembly with compressed air. It is designed so that should the pilot light burn improperly (due to lack of oxygen in the room) the flame will lift away from the thermopile and cause the gas valve to shut down. This shutdown will also happen if the air passage is clogged with dust.

The tip of the thermopile should be noticeably red hot while in operation. As noted they can get weak and not produce enough electricity. It's important for all electrical connections to be clean and tight. The system runs on less than 1/2 volt of electricity; there is not much to spare to bad connections.

If the sparker is not working you can light it with a match. The AA battery and spark generator is only involved in initial lighting. Once lit the valve operates on the millivolts from the thermopile.

That is very good advice. I was ready to throw mine out after all the cleaning and tinkering and somebody told me all I was doing was putting more debris in the pilot light tube. I blew it out with air and it worked like new.

 

[repairman54]

I have LIMITED experience as I only deal with such things when forced to as a homeowner, but any time I've had a pilot refuse to stay lit, it's a thermocouple.

My boiler is VERY picky and it can look like it's in the flame, but it's not quite right -- figured that one out from a local plumber when I had to call because my replacement position was wrong, but at least I learned something there.

I had an erratic pilot out issue on my snowmobile clubs propane Utica boiler. I was able to dig into the factory's archived tech bulletin's doing some searching. Low and behold there was a pilot head update dealing with the issue with a different design to keep the flame on the thermocouple. New assy. in and no outages now for 3 weeks.
Many times manufactures come out with updates a few years later.