Some of Bill's concerns should be addressed by the next Prius gen that will about double the battery capacity and allow charging from a wall 120V socket. This will both allow longer electric powered trips and provide more electric energy for longer climbs.
I'd like to thank you EKpolk on your efforts to educate them about Prius as some/many people hate changes. The days of old carburetor based computer-less engines are long gone. Electronics and electronic motors will be more prominent while gas engines will have to slowly go away. That is inevitable.
I agree that Prius is a wonderful overall design. Excellent compromise. However, I do think that it should be compared to smaller Civics and Corollas despite dimension differences because they are all more or less in the same category - general purpose family car used mostly for commuting to work.
Sure Civic and Corolla are smaller, but they still have plenty of space. Especially in Europe, car space is used/perceived in a very different way. I took a taxi to airport in souther Eruope - 4 adults, single 2 year old kid, taxi driver, 3 suitcases. Guess what the car was?
Toyota Yaris!!!!!!! Don't ask me how we all fit. I don't know
Yes, Prius is in direct competition with slightly smaller vehicles (like Civic), but not with compacts like Yaris and Fit.
That being said, there is still a pricing problem even today. Here in Canada I priced a basic Prius for about $37K. Even Civic hybrid was only about $2K cheaper, so the same applies. Now we have a rebate program that may drop the price by about $2K. Still, even a $35K Prius is rather expensive. To be fair, Camry and Accord are not much cheaper either.
Still, plain Civic is much cheaper and there are plenty of used ones available. Same goes for Corollas, diesel VWs, etc. In fact, my own old Civic hatchback would cost only about $4K if I were selling it. Yet it always gets about 40-45 mpg. For plain commuting to work it plenty big enough, yet uses only little bit more than a Prius. Sure, I need a second bigger vehcile for longer trips. Or one could always rent too.
I tried used Prius but they were all lease vehicles. Not much choice.
So the bottom line is that I could obtain a similar performance from a $4K-$10K used Civic that will serve just as well on all except long trips when you need every bit of space available. That is what many/most of the other posters in this discussion are trying to say.
The current Prius costs bit too much and provides a bit better fuel efficiency. What it really needs to do is to cost bit more or not while providing MUCH better fuel efficiency. It needs to silence the critics so that even diesels cannot come near it in terms of fuel efficiency.
I love the design and hope that the next one will get into 60-70 mpg territory. If/when if gets there then I will have a much easier time justifying replacement of my small efficient Civic with an expensive new Prius. The current design is close to that threshold, but not there just yet. 60+ mpg will put it well past Civics and Corollas.
The other issue is gasoline price. As most said it just isn't high enough. Again southern europe is paying about 2x what we pay. Again, they all drive. They simply use smaller engines. A 1.3L engine there is standard. 2L engine is considered powerful.
I am guessing that when we approach $100/barrel and $4-$5/gal then these numbers might attract some attention and people will start paying REAL attention. $100/barrel is a nice round number so should attract a lot of media attention.
Today the people who are REALLY paying attention are a tiny minority. The majority is simply annoyed, while making a lot of noise.
When gasoline price starts to REALLY hurt then they won't be able to keep ANY hybrid stocked, both Toyota and Honda.
So keep up the good fight. Thanks for all the info and pics.
