Series 60 engine concerns.

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So I'm running a 2004 series 60 engine, non egr, non emissions engine. Running Phillips 66 15w40 fleet supreme during the break in period.

I built it last January, got it installed and ran it 13k miles and grenaded it due to a typographical error on my part.

Anyways, rebuilt it, fixed what I screwed up and got it going. So we're 30k miles on this new engine and the oil samples are getting worse. When I blew it up I put 6 gallons of antifreeze in the oil pan, so our initial concern was residual antifreeze in the engine from the catastrophic failure, so far all the samples have showed great results with little to no antifreeze and numbers going in the right direction.

So today I get my sample back and I have high copper and high lead, silicon has also been high and I'm not sure why, I've been all over the intake system, new air filters, checked boots, clamps, everything. The thought is sealants used to build the engine, which the second time was minuscule use of sealants..

So our concerns are the current levels. So if you see in my samples. First sample was 3k, then 14k(which was a 10k oil change interval) and the latest was at 30k(a 15k interval). The engine is not stock, our rough guess is somewhere in the 6-650 HP range to the wheels, total shot from the hip based on how my original engine performed at 540 dyno rwhp. I've never had a fuel dilution or low viscosity issue when running Chevron.

So we are wondering thoughts on the oil, could the oil be causing the issues? Is it maybe the wrong oil for a high horsepower application? The fuel dilution we're checking into, the only fix for sure is to pull them and test them. A cutout test will only tell us so much. We're wondering if maybe the oil is thinning faster from the added horsepower and it's causing these issues.

Also, silicon, thoughts? Filters are brand new, I've put everything on new, I'm about out of things to change. But I'm open to suggestions. I've pressure tested the CAC and it holds 25 psi for 20-30 mins no issues. Thoughts? Questions?
 

thejudges69

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Sorry samples didn't post.

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Does not look too bad. I do believe that it's sucking dirt from somewhere. Do you blow the air filter out To clean it?

Imo that's a good oil and not the problem. Tell us more about 6 gallons of coolant in the oil
 

thejudges69

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Does not look too bad. I do believe that it's sucking dirt from somewhere. Do you blow the air filter out To clean it?

Imo that's a good oil and not the problem. Tell us more about 6 gallons of coolant in the oil
The 6 gallons was a result of an error on my part that lead to catastrophic failure. Not really relevant to the oil samples to be honest. It ended in a full engine rebuild again.

I'm all over this intake system and can't find anything. I'm wondering if there is an issue with the intake manifold, but it should be positive pressure into the engine when everything is hooked up since the turbo is pushing air, maybe I need to lift the rockers off and test the intake system with the valves closed to include the head.

The silicon really has me stumped, but the copper and lead are huge concerns.
 
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Did you do any sand blasting during clean up and rebuild that might not have gotten totally cleaned up? I’m also curious if you’ve checked the new air filter for a tear or poor fitment?

You checked the CAC but did you check the system? Were the CAC tubes and all the components cleaned?

One more silly thing. Didn’t you find “stuff” in the bottom of your pail of oil? Have you done a VOA just to check?

Just my $0.02
 

thejudges69

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Did you do any sand blasting during clean up and rebuild that might not have gotten totally cleaned up? I’m also curious if you’ve checked the new air filter for a tear or poor fitment?

You checked the CAC but did you check the system? Were the CAC tubes and all the components cleaned?

One more silly thing. Didn’t you find “stuff” in the bottom of your pail of oil? Have you done a VOA just to check?

Just my $0.02
The CAC tubes were powder coated, they blasted the outsides. Idk if they blasted the insides. The don't feel as though they were blasted. But they were cleaned before installation of course. Could that be an issue?

I have not had the filters out since I installed a few weeks ago. They fit ok going in, but it's a 10 minute job to lift the kids and inspect the installation. So I can check that.

Yes the oil did have dirt in it, that would be this current oil though. I dropped the pan and cleaned inside the pan and put new oil in..but I'm asking my oil provider if it's possible that the buckets or oil is getting dirty during the filling process now that I know they're filling them in house instead of buying them prefilled. Which I'm wondering if that's so that it'll cause oil sample irregularities
 

thejudges69

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Did you do any sand blasting during clean up and rebuild that might not have gotten totally cleaned up? I’m also curious if you’ve checked the new air filter for a tear or poor fitment?

You checked the CAC but did you check the system? Were the CAC tubes and all the components cleaned?

One more silly thing. Didn’t you find “stuff” in the bottom of your pail of oil? Have you done a VOA just to check?

Just my $0.02
Oh and I checked the system from the turbo to the intake. So I disconnected the boot off the turbo and disconnected the boot off the intake manifold, plugged and tested. Yes!
 
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IMO, if it was ingesting dirt, you should see iron and aluminum higher than normal, which isn’t the case here. Did you use any silicone sealer anywhere? Did you have the big ends of the rods reconditioned? Did you plastigauge the mains? Did you replace the camshaft or cylinder head?
 

thejudges69

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IMO, if it was ingesting dirt, you should see iron and aluminum higher than normal, which isn’t the case here. Did you use any silicone sealer anywhere? Did you have the big ends of the rods reconditioned? Did you plastigauge the mains? Did you replace the camshaft or cylinder head?
Yes to all of that except the plastigage. The machine shop checked the crank and bore, without bearings of course. The rods had new bushings installed in wrist pin end, machined to fit, the rods were bump sanded and all checked for exact center to center. Pistons, bearings, head, injectors all new. Yes silicone was used the second time as well. 4 points on the valve cover and 4 points on the oil pan. The front covers were not off the second rebuild so they been on for roughly 50k miles. Camshaft was replaced with the first rebuild and reused on the second after the failure.

After last week's escapade with the dirt in the buckets and finding out my oil is being bulk filled and not coming filled from phillips I'm wondering if the dirt is in the buckets already. I also called Blackstone about the sample. He's saying the testing is showing a viscosity of 10w30 not ,15w40, so we're going to get a sample of the oil new and send it for testing.
 
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Yes to all of that except the plastigage. The machine shop checked the crank and bore, without bearings of course. The rods had new bushings installed in wrist pin end, machined to fit, the rods were bump sanded and all checked for exact center to center. Pistons, bearings, head, injectors all new. Yes silicone was used the second time as well. 4 points on the valve cover and 4 points on the oil pan. The front covers were not off the second rebuild so they been on for roughly 50k miles. Camshaft was replaced with the first rebuild and reused on the second after the failure.

After last week's escapade with the dirt in the buckets and finding out my oil is being bulk filled and not coming filled from phillips I'm wondering if the dirt is in the buckets already. I also called Blackstone about the sample. He's saying the testing is showing a viscosity of 10w30 not ,15w40, so we're going to get a sample of the oil new and send it for testing.

If dirt was in the oil buckets then that would be plausible with the lead/copper but no iron or aluminum. The silicon could be from either the dealer or the dirt in the buckets, tough to distinguish other than watching trends. Let us know what you find with the oil. It is definitely thin for a 15w40
 

thejudges69

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If dirt was in the oil buckets then that would be plausible with the lead/copper but no iron or aluminum. The silicon could be from either the dealer or the dirt in the buckets, tough to distinguish other than watching trends. Let us know what you find with the oil. It is definitely thin for a 15w40
I spoke to my providers engineer. We're going to drain this new oil and send it for a sample along with a sample of the virgin oil for a baseline comparison. The concern is the starting viscosity levels, if it's close to the baseline for 15w40 then he said it would show a significant breakdown faster, (I may have worded that wrong) but he's agreeing that with the added horsepower and fuel to the engine that if this oil is on the lower level for a 15w40 oil that it may not be the best choice for this engines performance requirements. We may need an oil with a higher viscosity level at virgin levels that won't breakdown as quick.

Hopefully I worded all that right.

As for the buckets, he claims they are stored in their warehouse, upside down, left undisturbed and then when flipped they are filled immediately and capped.
 
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The S60, especially the emissions free ones, are not known to be that hard on oil. Is this the 500hp+ engine? Assuming so seeing that it’s a 14L and not a 12.7
 

thejudges69

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The S60, especially the emissions free ones, are not known to be that hard on oil. Is this the 500hp+ engine? Assuming so seeing that it’s a 14L and not a 12.7
My old engine was a 12.7 well over 500 RWHP and never had issues like this, specifically viscosity issues. Thus engine started life as an emissions engine, but I back dated the build to a non emissions engine.
 

thejudges69

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Spoke to Hailey @ Phillips 66 also. She's confirming what everyone else is saying. The oils testing like 10w30. Samples leave tomorrow overnight. I'll post results when I get them.
 

thejudges69

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So here is the latest sample and a virgin sample..

Now the virgin sample I'm not sold by. I didn't witness the sample being taken from the tanker, I only aided in removing it from their sample container. I want to know what was in my buckets I returned and they're claiming they sent their own sample of that. I'm finding it hard to believe that my engine is breaking down virgin oil that fast. Idk what would cause that.

I've since filled the engine back up with 15w40 Chevron. I'm having trust issues with my local Phillips/Kendall provider after all of this.
 

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thejudges69

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I spoke to Phillips this past week as well as my local provider. Seems that no one knows why the oil is breaking down. They're saying it's fuel dilution and that Blackstone needs to do some other type of fuel dilution test, anyone heard of that? Also, all the virgin samples came back with good viscosity levels 14-15.

Lastly, the engines had Chevron in it for about 4k miles. Ok doing a sample today from the sump, the oil pressure has been better, oil temps are lower, and all around the engine just sounds better. I do get a little Huff out of the blowby tube. Otherwise it's better. I maybe sticking with Chevron or Ursa.b
 
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Send it to Polaris or wear check they use GC for fuel it’s very accurate

The only way to fuel to get into the oil other than past the rings that I know of are through the top of the injector through the plunger or the o ring(s), a cracked head (unlikely) or the fuel pump leaking into the back of the air compressor. Do you notice your oil level rising? The low(er) flashpoint does indicate fuel present, and it’s likely more than what black stone is reporting
 
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thejudges69

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Send it to Polaris or wear check they use GC for fuel it’s very accurate

The only way to fuel to get into the oil other than past the rings that I know of are through the top of the injector through the plunger or the o ring(s), a cracked head (unlikely) or the fuel pump leaking into the back of the air compressor. Do you notice your oil level rising? The low(er) flashpoint does indicate fuel present, and it’s likely more than what black stone is reporting
No, the oil level isn't rising, there is nothing to indicate any type of fuel dilution. Evey sample I've taken has had >.5 dilution.

What is GC? Is that the other test that Phillips is talking about?
 
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