Still having viscosity issues that I can’t figure out how to fix. But otherwise I think it looks good. Any input?
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Series 60 Detroit 14L 2.26M mi; Kendall DXA 15w-40 17k mi
- Thread starter thejudges69
- Start date
I wouldn't trust anything Blackstone gives for viscosity. They have shown an inability to measure that and fuel dilution properly.
I would find a lab that can rule out fuel dilution with a proper direct measurement method. If that is ruled out then use an oil with little or no VM, isn't a monograde typically indicated for this engine? The 15W-40 you are using may not have the most stable VM.
I would find a lab that can rule out fuel dilution with a proper direct measurement method. If that is ruled out then use an oil with little or no VM, isn't a monograde typically indicated for this engine? The 15W-40 you are using may not have the most stable VM.
Back when we ran a 6.0L powerstroke and even today my motorcraft and Kendall oils which I beleive are made from Conoco Phillips test out at a slightly lower viscocity. Have you tried a different brand of oil to see how it does? Have you ruled out any shearing?
You are thinking of the old 2 stroke Detroit diesels. His series 60 is a fully electronic double overhead cam 4 stroke that is designed for a 15w40.
Ah right, well either way, if there isn't fuel dilution and he's shearing the VM in this engine then he needs a better oil. Especially a monograde if the climate can support that. Otherwise he needs to change the oil more often.
I still don't trust any of those numbers from Blackstone.
I had a viscosity test done by another lab, I forget what it’s called but it’s more in depth and supports the Blackstone results exactly.
Single overhead cam. But yes designed for 15w40
Viscosity sure, but what was the reason? Viscosity can be affected by either the breakdown of the VM (mechanical shear) or by fuel dilution. Mitigation of one or the other is different.
If your climate supports it a monograde oil will not mechanically shear. That would be a good test if you can. Did the other lab indicate fuel dilution?
What is VM? Only oils I’ve tried in this engine are Kendall super DXA and Phillips 66 guardol non synthetic during the break in period. These have been the results for the last 300k with this engine. Open to suggestions though cause other shops around me using this oil don’t have these results, as for what we have done. There isn’t much to do, I’ve been all over the oil system, ran overheads, oil temps are low. It shears fast. I’ve taken samples of 3k mile oil and the oil shear will match this sample for viscosity.
Yes Polaris labs did the test. It was recommended by this forum to use them. I forget what the test is called though but there was no fuel dilution present.
Sorry, it is the viscosity modifier, or viscosity index improver. It is what is added to create a multi-viscosity oil. The tendency for an oil to show mechanical shear is dependent on the engine, the operating conditions, the amount of VII added, and the quality of the VII. Not all are the same quality. Some are more prone to mechanical shear than others.
EDIT: I read your response. In this case I'd try a different oil, preferably a synthetic. Like I said if you can swing a monograde in your climate that would be a definitive test for shear.
I honestly have no idea how to tell in any other ways if the oil has dilution, every test I have done has shown little to no fuel present, I don’t idle the truck, it doesn’t make oil. Short of setting it on fire to check for fuel dilution what else if there? Blackstone has shown no dilution, Polaris no dilution, private lab in Ohio no dilution. I’m pretty confident it doesn’t have fuel dilution. Just my opinion of course
Right got it. Sorry think some of our posts crossed each other.
If that’s the case then try a different oil which may help to resist mechanical shear of the VII. As I mentioned, the best test would be an oil with no VM, a monograde. If your climate can allow. If not, then try a synthetic which may have better, or less VM.
@thejudges69 you could try Mystik 15w50 and see if that helps. You could also try a different brand of oil like others have suggested.
What is your expected or planned OCI? If you are close to it at 17,000 miles than maybe you change nothing.
What is your expected or planned OCI? If you are close to it at 17,000 miles than maybe you change nothing.
I spoke to Phillips 66 about this today, they want a virgin oil sample and a used oil sample sent to them and then a used sample sent to Polaris. My concern with switching is that I’ve been told that changing oil can increase wear on internals cause of the difference in oils. Any truth to that?
How do I know if an oil has VM or not? I don’t know that I’d wanna run full synthetic only cause I don’t run extended intervals and I feel like I’d be wasting money with changing so frequent with synthetic. I am ok with a blend though.
What is HPL? I don’t like oil I have to mail order. I have considered trying Texas refineries 15w40 but only because they have a warehouse local to me. Other options are the normal, Chevron, rotella, Mobil, gulf, Phillips/kendall. You get the idea lol.
It’s a premium oil, they are also a sponsor here. It is a mail order lube, but it is usually very quick, and they offer 15% off to BITOG members. All the information about their products are on that site, as far as oil specs/viscosities etc.
https://www.advlubrication.com/
No that was a flawed study that had lots of problems. Switching is no issue.
Only a monograde oil or one that specifically advertises as such does not have VII. Forget your concerns about a synthetic. It’s good all around.
dnewton3
Staff member
I see nothing in this report that makes the conversation about vis worthy of concern.
The wear-metal rates are quite desirable. Averaging at or less than 1ppm of Fe per 1k miles. The other metals are so low as to be considered noise.
The contamination is nearly non-existent. (confirmed no dilution issue by other labs; Si very low; insolubles very low)
I would say 20k miles is the next reasonable step.
Futuer, BS does a decent job of measuring vis; I disagree with anyone that says otherwise. What they do that some believe questionable is they have their own interpretation of the "should be range" which doesn't always align with the industry values. But that does NOT mean they don't properly measure vis. As for FP and fuel conent, I'd agree their method can be suspect; it's a test which is based on visual acuity of the flame appearance and is heavily dependent upon the observer. There are better methods employed by other labs in this regard.
The wear-metal rates are quite desirable. Averaging at or less than 1ppm of Fe per 1k miles. The other metals are so low as to be considered noise.
The contamination is nearly non-existent. (confirmed no dilution issue by other labs; Si very low; insolubles very low)
I would say 20k miles is the next reasonable step.
Futuer, BS does a decent job of measuring vis; I disagree with anyone that says otherwise. What they do that some believe questionable is they have their own interpretation of the "should be range" which doesn't always align with the industry values. But that does NOT mean they don't properly measure vis. As for FP and fuel conent, I'd agree their method can be suspect; it's a test which is based on visual acuity of the flame appearance and is heavily dependent upon the observer. There are better methods employed by other labs in this regard.
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