Seal conditioners and cars that dont need them

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JHZR2

JHZR2

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Hello,

One quick question on experience and opinion regarding seal conditioners. Say one runs an HM oil that contains seal conditioners, and say that the seals are tight, non-leaky and like new. Can a seal be too conditioned?

What are the implications of too much seal conditioner? can seals start to degrade? fall apart? expand excessively and extrude themselves from a gap?

I potentially like the M1 HM10w-40 as a good viscosity, but I worry a bit about the seal conditioners it has - given that I do not need them...

My understanding is that the right amount of ester to provide a 1-2% expansion is desirable. Anything more than that is trouble. I just have to wonder if adding that little bit more, while not excessive, is just enough to be too much to induce extra wear ad potentially premature damage/failure when it did not need to be so.

What are the downsides?

Thanks,

JMH
 
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Good question to ask Mobil. My personnel opinion, not based on data is that I would not use it until needed. It may be needed at 80 or 110,000 miles or never , depending on previous engine history. JMO Ed
 
http://www.astmtmc.cmu.edu/docs/diesel/hdeocp/minutes/2003/HDEOCP.2003-10.pdf
See Pages 18-20 to see that every oil tested affected that seal material in different ways and amounts. I see no way to make predictions of how any oil is going to affect an engine's seals. Trial and error is best method. Oil consumption rate (affected by leakage past valve seals/guides) and presence (or lack) of startup smoke are two metrics to track. Oil consumption is also affected by other factors of course.
 
I switched to HM Mobil 1 10W-30 from the regular Mobil 1 on one of my cars that has about 62K on it. There is nothing that Mobil says (if what they say has any validity) that indicates using HM oil will hurt on a car that doesn't have high miles. Besides, the engine in this particular car was made in the UK and the English have always been known for leaky engines. No leaks so far!
 
I'm amazed about the posts I see here about no oil consumption with engines greater than 100k miles. syn use seems to be key in their posts. I'm pondering a similar question with using Maxlife syn with seal conditioners. I'm hesitant to use it in my vibe.
 
Originally Posted By: Cutehumor
I'm amazed about the posts I see here about no oil consumption with engines greater than 100k miles. syn use seems to be key in their posts. I'm pondering a similar question with using Maxlife syn with seal conditioners. I'm hesitant to use it in my vibe.


Neither of my 302's consume any discernible quantity of oil. Neither has ever had "high mileage oil". Neither have had their whole life on synth, but both have had a VERY good portion of it. Always has been M1 as far as synth is concerned.

As I've had gaskets or seals go, I simply replace them.
 
APPLICATION
PENNZOIL® HIGH MILEAGE VEHICLE® motor oil has been designed with the needs of higher mileage vehicles as a priority. PENNZOIL® HIGH MILEAGE VEHICLE® motor oil is suitable for all gasoline engines used in passenger cars and light trucks recommending an API SM oil in the appropriate viscosity grade. PENNZOIL® HIGH MILEAGE VEHICLE® motor oil meets or exceeds the current API Service SM and may be used in old or new vehicles. PENNZOIL® HIGH MILEAGE VEHICLE® motor oil is available in SAE 5W-20, SAE 5W-30, SAE 10W-30, SAE 10W-40 and SAE 20W-50 viscosity grades.
Product has not been tested to the fuel economy requirements of ILSAC GF-4 but meets engine and emission protection requirements of GF-4.
 
I think it is completely safe to use for any age of car but as GaryAllan showed the main issue is that it does not have the fuel economy requirements tested so is probably not a good choice for gas misers.
 
I see the seal conditioners as a preventive maintenance item. Sure, you don't need them in a brand new car, but certainly I would want to start using them before I actually need them (before there are actual seeps or leaks), rather than wait for leaks to develop before using it.
 
Originally Posted By: TallPaul
I see the seal conditioners as a preventive maintenance item. Sure, you don't need them in a brand new car, but certainly I would want to start using them before I actually need them (before there are actual seeps or leaks), rather than wait for leaks to develop before using it.


They are going to develop regardless. Parts wear. Seals typically ride on something, like a front-main for example rides on the balancer on a 302. They will eventually cut a groove in the balancer! This causes it to leak. No quantity of seal conditioner is going to prevent this condition.
 
Originally Posted By: Yuk
I asked basically the same question a little while ago:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/1159384/

And received what I believe to be vague, or inconclusive answers.


I saw that one, and there are a few more too... some even give numbers with regards to additization and swelling.

I still dont know what the long-term effects could be...

JMH
 
As glennc pointed out in that thread, the basic information you're looking for has been posted here in the technical area. Information about diesters and seal dimensions comes to mind...
 
Originally Posted By: JAG
Oil consumption rate (affected by leakage past valve seals/guides) and presence (or lack) of startup smoke are two metrics to track. Oil consumption is also affected by other factors of course.


I have a 1992 Chevy S-10, 4.3L, 28K miles, mostly city driving, original owner. Its mostly a "Home Depot" vehicle, but I try to drive it at least once a month, to keep battery charged, etc. There is a pretty significant puff of exhaust smoke on a cold start, but oil consumption isn't a problem, NEVER have to top it off between oil changes. with a Warm start, no smoke. Gas mileage is normal, runs fine, no funny noises, etc. BTW, I change the oil and filter every 3K miles or so, which is every couple years, considering the low mileage. Oil looks OK when drained, not real dark, no "burned" smell. A few questions:

1) does this sound like a seal problem, should I consider an oil with a seal conditioner? If so, what do people recommend? How can I have such puffs of smoke with *only* cold starts, but not be consuming oil? Something else?

2) Should I change oil more frequently? But if I do it every year, it will be like only 2K miles or so.
 
Here is the Roy Howell interview where he discusses seal function and swelling. As always he comes across as restrained and authoritative in his opinion, IMO:

http://www.motorwatch.com/audio_video/experts/RedlineHiMileageOil.mp3

I think it would be worth anybody's time to listen to his thoughts on the matter. In this interview he seems to be guided by the interviewer towards a negative opinion on high mileage oils, but if you pay attention to his actual comments on their properties, there is really nothing negative, just an acknowledgement that there is a lot of marketing involved in their characterization.
 
Originally Posted By: KilgoreBass
1) does this sound like a seal problem, should I consider an oil with a seal conditioner? If so, what do people recommend? How can I have such puffs of smoke with *only* cold starts, but not be consuming oil? Something else?

2) Should I change oil more frequently? But if I do it every year, it will be like only 2K miles or so.

1) That's a classic symptom. Valve seals are most likely worn but rings and cylinders are in decent shape. It's more of an annoyance than a big problem since the total amount of oil consumed from that is small.

2) With such infrequent oil changes (inexpensive) I'd try Mobil 1 10W-30 High Mileage and keep your current OCI. There are no guarantees it will help the smoke on cold starts but it might and it should remain in better shape during the years between OCIs than an average mineral passenger car motor oil. If it performs worse, let us know and something else should be tried next time. Your engine will likely wear out from chemical attack more so than more often used engines that have more rubbing wear.
 
Wow, thanks for the quick answers. This is a very cool web site.

BTW, the start up smoke is kind of embarrassing sometimes. I know how **I** think when I see people going down the road with a huge cloud behind them, "inconsiderate jerk", that kind of thing. So I'm a little self-conscious when I start my truck, and people see a big puff of smoke belching out. I sure would like to fix it without the expense of changing the valve seals.

I see Mobile 1 High Mileage come in 5W-30. 5W-30 came in the truck from the dealer, and is recommended in my climate. Why 10W-30, so it will remain on my valve stems longer?

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_Clean_High_Mileage.aspx

Again, thanks to all the informed people who contribute to this unique forum.

PS: I change all my own oil now, due to all the bad experiences at the quick-oil-change places....
 
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