Scary...fires in Hondas due to improperly installed filters

[mrdctaylor]

I just thought the guys here would want to see this:

http://money.cnn.com/2004/07/09/news/international/honda_fires.reut/index.htm?cnn=yes

 

[benjamming]

So much for a stealership's "expertise" and "need" to have oil changes done there (not that they ever have).

 

[MikeR]

Wow - I just came here to post this link. Ya beat me to it.

Sounds like the oil filter is located over the exhaust manifold - great idea there. If this is the case, simply removing the old filter could give the exhaust a good coating of oil.

Anyone here have a Gen II CR-V?

MR

 

[T-Keith]

A lot of Hondas have the filter above the exhaust. Ford's filters are usually over the starter.

-T

 

[RedWolf4000]

Why? Thats pretty dumb to have an oil filter over anything, my oil filter on my chevy has nothing under it, it would just leak to the road.

Im sure it was due to lack of space or somthing.

 

[Gene K]

Question: Would a lower viscosity oil ie 5W-20 be easier to ignite than a heavier viscosity oil ie 5W-30?

Just curious, as lighter hydrocarbons are in general easier to ignite than heavier ones.

Gene

 

[TallPaul]

quote:

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Ford's filters are usually over the starter.

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Yep, that's why I like to change wifes 3.0 Aerostar filter after the engine sat overnight cold. Then none spills out. Not only right over the starter, but close enought to hot battery lead that you could have 4th of July if you aren't very careful with the oil filter wrench!

 

[parrothead]

Just another reason why I don't let anyone else change my oil. How hard can it be it to install an oil filter? BTW, my oil filter is on the opposite side of the engine from the exhaust.

 

[Cutehumor]

hopefully that oil filter isn't in the same place on their 3.5L engines

 

[VNT]

Too funny placing the filter above the exhaust manifold, guess their engineers didnt do a failue mode analysis on the design and pretty lame blaming the techs.

Do they use this engine in other platforms? Why arent those going up in flames?

VNT

 

[Matt_S]

I don't know about the CR-V, but my wife's Civic has the filter on the back side of the block. It's just about the worst place they could have put it. Not only is it above all the hot exhaust pipes, it's hard to get at in the first place. I hope they learn their lesson from this and relocate the filter to a better spot on future engines. I also can easily see how a technician could overlook a gasket problem like this, given the filter location.

 

[labman]

Some how this doesn't add up. I have spilled a lot of oil on the exhaust manifold and never caused a fire. Of course, I usually mess around and don't start the engine until things have had time to cool. It also allows much of the spilled oil to make it to the floor. I don't have the specs handy, but oil is hard to set on fire. I don't think the heat of the manifold is enough. Are there flames leaking out? Electrical sparks from the starter disengaging? Is the dealers bulk oil contaminated with a little of something more inflammable? Once something else starts it, hot oil burns very well.

Is this mainly a dealership problem? Iffy lubes, DIY? What do the dealers do differently? Do they have fire extinguishers in their shop and train the technicians to use them?

Anybody want to try to remove the filters the now diligent technicians tighten?

 

[Binmonkey]

Apparently, the problem has been that when the old filter is removed, the tech hasn't noticed the occasional filter seal staying stuck to the engine block, and installed the new filter over top of the old seal. Why only CRVs? We're still not sure about that one. Is it harder to see if the seal is stuck on?

 

[White 03]

quote:

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Originally posted by labman:
Some how this doesn't add up. I have spilled a lot of oil on the exhaust manifold and never caused a fire. Of course, I usually mess around and don't start the engine until things have had time to cool. It also allows much of the spilled oil to make it to the floor. I don't have the specs handy, but oil is hard to set on fire. I don't think the heat of the manifold is enough. Are there flames leaking out? Electrical sparks from the starter disengaging? Is the dealers bulk oil contaminated with a little of something more inflammable? Once something else starts it, hot oil burns very well.

---

Well somehow I personally know I can get oil spilled on a hot exhaust to catch fire.

Easily put out with promt use large clean rag and the boss will probably never find out.

 

[ekpolk]

quote:

---

Originally posted by labman:
Some how this doesn't add up. I have spilled a lot of oil on the exhaust manifold and never caused a fire. Of course, I usually mess around and don't start the engine until things have had time to cool. It also allows much of the spilled oil to make it to the floor. I don't have the specs handy, but oil is hard to set on fire. I don't think the heat of the manifold is enough. Are there flames leaking out? Electrical sparks from the starter disengaging? Is the dealers bulk oil contaminated with a little of something more inflammable? Once something else starts it, hot oil burns very well.

Is this mainly a dealership problem? Iffy lubes, DIY? What do the dealers do differently? Do they have fire extinguishers in their shop and train the technicians to use them?

Anybody want to try to remove the filters the now diligent technicians tighten?

---

Well, I've never managed to get oil on the manifold to ignite, but I think I've gotten close. And one time, a few years ago, when my just-out-of-warranty 98 Regal GS was in the process of falling apart, it started dribbling oil from the front bank valve cover, which would then oooze down to the manifold and burn off with smoke only. The dealership was so concerned about this that they offered me a free loaner car to drive until they could get it fixed a couple days later. That they did this when I was past wty suggest to me relatively high risk.

 

[Bror Jace]

I know the Honda/Acura B15 & B18 engines have their filter horizontally on the back of the engine block. This was a minor pain to get to on a 2nd generation Integra but offered very easy access on a 5th generation Civic (from above).

In both cases, some hot oil would drip/splash onto the exhaust pipe. This would produce a burnt oil smell for a couple of days. No big.

I wonder if there is some "pocket" on the block which traps oil on the newer CRV and this delivers more oil onto the exhaust ... or is the cat' on the newer CRVs closer to where the oil splashes ... making for more heat and potential for combustion?

Interesting theory on the lighter 5W20 oils being more prone to flashing and ignition.

I also have to think that this at least partially caused by people (mostly Iffy Loob and stealerships) doing rapid oil changes and failing to wipe where oil tends to collect and/or drip onto the exhaust.

I bet this wouldn't be a problem for your typical BITOGer.

--- Bror Jace