Saturn vs other Compacts

[InvalidUserID]

My mother has a '93 DOHC SL2 sedan. Nice enough little car that has lasted so far. Other than wear & tear parts, its been reliable though it does have that oil consumption problem.

I believe it has 140k on it now. Its funny, our garage has two 140k+ American cars in the garage that run fine. There goes that myth (at least in our house).

 

[ALS]

I've never owned a Saturn but from people that have owned them they were happy with the car.

Any American car will last 150K if it is properly serviced. Ignore the maintenance in any make and it will be a problem to you.

 

[automated1]

Well i have owned a toyota echo and i must say the seat height is good and the reliability / gas mileage is great. The only reason we got rid of the car is because we had a baby and the echo we had didnt have any ac. Then we decided to go with a new civic which we also love. We havent had any problems with either.

 

[kingrob]

I was weary of using a four-cylinder car for manic cab driving, but I had a young lady driver who wanted a smaller car, she was always denting up the Olds and Crown Vics and I think she wanted something better on gas.

After 500,000 miles it was getting approx. 23 miles to the gallon, about five more than the Vics and Cutlasses.

I'm not sure how many mpg it was supposed to have but for crazy street driving it was a pretty good figure, in my opinion.

I still wish I had that car sometimes.

 

[mechtech]

Saturns seem to have major engine wear problems, in different areas.
By far the #1 car for puked engines, in our shop.
I think some of the problem is that the average Saturn owner is not a car person, and doesn't maintain it right.
But, something else is at fault.
I don't know about the very newest ones, however.

 

[bulwnkl]

In the overall (to which there are ALWAYS exceptions), if you are going to buy used, the best value (total cost per mile) by a loooooong ways are the domestics. My rule of thumb, which overstates things and isn't meant to apply to anyone but me, is:

Only a fool buys a new American car, and only a fool buys a used Honda or Toyota. The money just doesn't work out with either.

We have a 2000 Neon (I know it's not one you're considering, that's not the point). When we bought it a year and a half ago with 35,000 miles on it, the same money would have only bought us a ~'96 Civic with 135,000 miles on it! I don't care whether the Civic might last 50,000 miles further, that's a BAD tradeoff for someone who doesn't care about anything but the transportation and the economy.

Good luck.

 

[Tosh]

quote:

---

Originally posted by bulwnkl:
Only a fool buys a new American car, and only a fool buys a used Honda or Toyota. The money just doesn't work out with either.

We have a 2000 Neon (I know it's not one you're considering, that's not the point). When we bought it a year and a half ago with 35,000 miles on it, the same money would have only bought us a ~'96 Civic with 135,000 miles on it! I don't care whether the Civic might last 50,000 miles further, that's a BAD tradeoff for someone who doesn't care about anything but the transportation and the economy.

Good luck.

---

I think I've seen you say something like this before, and it didn't make sense then either. Are you sure you're not comparing a sweet deal on your Neon with the wishful full retail price from a shady dealer on a used Civic?
If it's foolish to pay about 2/3 of retail on a year and a half old Honda or Toyota with under 30k miles, then I'm all for spreading this kind of foolishness....
What is becoming more obvious to me is that some people just can't see or feel the refinement and quality from Toyota and Honda and are only reading the theoretical dollar figure on the bottom line to justify buying some other make.

 

[bulwnkl]

What I'm saying with the above is this: American cars are SO much cheaper just 1-model-year old than they are new that only a fool would buy one new. OTOH, slightly to moderately used Hondas and Toyotas are so nearly the same price as new that only a fool would pay essentially the same money for a 30,000-mile-used one versus a new one.
IOW, a person is wasting money paying for a new American car, and similarly wasting money paying for a used Toyota or Honda.

My story with the Neon and the Civics was our actual experience shopping for those cars FROM PRIVATE PARTIES ONLY. No dealers involved at all. That was the CLOSEST comparison we found. It's also not the only time we've found that basic situation to be the case.

[ August 24, 2005, 10:23 PM: Message edited by: bulwnkl ]

 

[The Critic]

Well, another Saturn owner here.

Wouldn't ever buy one again. Fit and Finish is just plain awful!

Yes, same alternator problem, died at 70,XXX miles and 5 years.

It drives like an 83 Honda would tons of squeaks and rattles, but I'd have to say though, that its very reliable for an american car, though I think mine was partially due to the fact that it has no power windows and locks.

Yes, mine has 84,XXX miles w/original brakes, though I can see a brake job coming soon as they're starting to squeak.

Burns 1 qt oil in 1200 miles, will RX soon to clean up stuck ring packs.

Some of the earlier SOHC engines seemed to have issues with headgaskets, but the later ones should be alright.

ATF is super easy to change since it has a spin-on FF filter.

Michael

 

[brianl703]

My mom bought a 2004 Chevrolet Malibu Classic in late December 2004 for $10,300 with 15,800 miles on it from a Chevrolet dealership.

The Malibu Classic is a fleet-only model (with the 2.2L Ecotec instead of the 3.1L V6 that the 2003 Malibu has), and this particular one belonged to Enterprise. This makes it interesting in that you can see the effects that fleet sales have on used-car prices; this car sold for $18,000 new, according to gmfleet.com

Interestingly enough, the 2003 Malibus with more mileage (25K or so) were only a little less expensive, around $9000. I guess because they don't have the "rental car stigma" associated with them.

If there's one thing that ex-rental cars do have going for them, it's that you can just about expect that the oil will have been changed on a regular basis, and the PCM prevents a lot of the abuse that people might try to put them through. (For instance, the PCM in a typical late-model vehicle with an automatic NOT let you go past redline, no matter what you do, including selecting manual 1st at 70MPH. Neutral drops? Don't be surprised if the engine doesn't want to rev up beyond a certain speed in neutral. Etc.).

 

[eljefino]

Show me a PCM that'll keep, uh, someone, from living a rally fantasy with their rental Neon!

Although if it had a GPS they might have gotten mad. But the counter lady and rental contract said "anywhere that's a road" was okay, paved or not, so...

Incidentally, three saturns at home, and I like them better than Neons FWIW.

 

[brianl703]

At most, I'd expect that would damage/wear out suspension parts which are (usually) easily inspected and replaced, unlike engines and transmissions.

Actually doesn't the Neon have a non-independent rear suspension? Might make it even better for rally use! (I'm pretty sure that the Saturn has an independent rear).

 

[bulwnkl]

Neons are IRS.

 

[Tosh]

I cannot believe we are rationalizing the purchase of an ex-rental car! "Mom, the hooker I married has a nice personality and is really good with strangers. And those kind of street smarts just aren't tought in school."

 

[labman]

I found this at http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=22;t=000585;p=1#000003

''I ran 10k OCIs in the previous ALH TDI. 60k and nothing went wrong. Well, the turbo locked up and the intake clogged shut, but those were both covered under warranty.''

Great cars those VW's. I think this helps explain the perceived quality of domestic and foreign. I have over 60 K on my 02 Cavalier. The only wrenches
that touched the car at all are the oil plug, filter housing, and lug nuts. I did have to put new windshield blades on this year. I have the same 2.2 Ecotec many Saturns use. Up top cartridge filter makes no jack oil changes possible.

 

[The Critic]

Labman,
Still factory ATF, and air filters on there?

MW

 

[Tosh]

Bullwinkle: My shopping experience has been different regarding Hondas and Toyotas. While the market has always been flooded with used domestic and other 'undesirable' makes, I've always had the time and ability to find those motivated private sellers of Hondas and Toyotas who will sell at 'wholesale' or 'trade-in' value. I believe any patient and knowledgeable buyer could do the same. I have also seen the ads for used ones with their inflated prices and just steered around them. The bottom line is that Hondas and Toyotas have better resale value because they're good, in-demand cars. But deals are still out there....

 

[Drew99GT]

quote:

---

Originally posted by bulwnkl:

Only a fool buys a new American car, and only a fool buys a used Honda or Toyota. The money just doesn't work out with either.

---

Learn how to shop then! I held out long enough to find a private party 1 owner 02 Corolla LE auto with ony 18,000 miles for 9,000 bucks. And I've found many similar deals, but I guess I'm willing to drive 100 miles or so to get a good deal as well.

As far as the choice, I'd give the nod to the Civic over the Corolla, having owned 2 Corollas. Civics seem to have more balls, and my 02 Corolla just does not have the build quality that I had hoped for.

 

[Winston]

quote:

---

Only a fool buys a new American car, and only a fool buys a used Honda or Toyota. The money just doesn't work out with either.

---

I agree with this statement. However, there are exceptions due to a great deal, etc. Also there are other brands. Nissan, Mitsubishi, etc. Used Hondas and Toyotas are outrageously priced cars.

 

[brianl703]

I can't believe we're comparing the purchase of a an ex-rental car with the marrying of an ex-hooker.

..I realize that some people have a notion that machines are "alive" but that's taking it a tad too far.

By the way, off-lease vehicles are not without suspicion. I remember when API SL came out a document issued by 76 Lubricants (I think) describing the changes for API SL which was the 4th or 5th google search result for "API SL". EDIT: The document has long since disappeared from the web.

It stated something to the effect of, "One of the goals of API SL is the ability to handle longer drain intervals so that vehicle manufacturers can protect their investment in leased vehicles".

[ August 25, 2005, 03:29 PM: Message edited by: brianl703 ]