Running 40:1 in a 50:1 world.

oil pan 4 said:
Emissions.
I wonder if the man ever bothered to figure 50:1 but your replacing stuff twice as often. They probably looked at tail pipe emissions and figure "meh the engine won't immediately fail on that little oil".
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Twice as often? Hardly. I doubt anyone on this forum even if you were a commercial user would be able to tell the difference in engine life between 40:1 and 50:1, especially if you use a good oil like Red Armor, Amsoil, Husqvarna XP, Opti-2, etc.

Not sure where you guys are seeing landscapers running 32:1, I have a few commercial landscape customers and they run Red Armor, Supertech, and Husky oil at 50:1, and two of them run Amsoil Saber at 80:1. The recommendations back in the day for 25:1 and 32:1 were from when you actually mixed SAE 30 motor oil with the fuel. 2-stroke oil technology has progressed lightyears ahead of those days, and all equipment is designed with 50:1 mix in mind.

The dirt bike guys run 32:1 and 40:1, but that is because more oil = leaner air/fuel ratio and the engine can make more power. It also means it will run hotter, as fuel is important for cooling in a 2-stroke. You are way more likely to blow up a 2-stroke engine from your carburetor tuning being too lean than if you run 50:1.
 
gathermewool said:
I’ve been away for a bit but I‘d swear the richer than 50:1 used to be akin to the 3k OCI in cars. That doesn’t seem to be the case in this thread.

I run 50:1 TruFuel in all of my 2-stroke. I go through a couple of cans per year. I hope not to learn a bad lesson in another half a decade when my stuff starts to break down. So far so good.
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You won't have any issues, with that said I'd switch to the VP Racing 50:1 mix over the Trufuel. Trufuel has the correct oil ratio in it, but some including myself have had issues with equipment not revving out all the way while using it, and switching to VP racing or Echo canned fuel solved it.
 
jeepman3071 said:
Twice as often? Hardly. I doubt anyone on this forum even if you were a commercial user would be able to tell the difference in engine life between 40:1 and 50:1, especially if you use a good oil like Red Armor, Amsoil, Husqvarna XP, Opti-2, etc.

Not sure where you guys are seeing landscapers running 32:1, I have a few commercial landscape customers and they run Red Armor, Supertech, and Husky oil at 50:1, and two of them run Amsoil Saber at 80:1. The recommendations back in the day for 25:1 and 32:1 were from when you actually mixed SAE 30 motor oil with the fuel. 2-stroke oil technology has progressed lightyears ahead of those days, and all equipment is designed with 50:1 mix in mind.

The dirt bike guys run 32:1 and 40:1, but that is because more oil = leaner air/fuel ratio and the engine can make more power. It also means it will run hotter, as fuel is important for cooling in a 2-stroke. You are way more likely to blow up a 2-stroke engine from your carburetor tuning being too lean than if you run 50:1.
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I only use my weed eater on my house and 2 other houses for profit. So light commercial.
I'll take the weed eater and set the carb for maximum RPMs with 50:1 and retest by only adding enough oil to make the gas in the tank 40:1. Which ever one gives me the most RPMs wins. It will take like 10 minutes to do including figuring how much oil to add to make 50:1 gas into 40:1 gas.
 
jeepman3071 said:
You won't have any issues, with that said I'd switch to the VP Racing 50:1 mix over the Trufuel. Trufuel has the correct oil ratio in it, but some including myself have had issues with equipment not revving out all the way while using it, and switching to VP racing or Echo canned fuel solved it.
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Same here, but I grab the VP 40:1 a gallon at a time, which lasts a year.
 
jeepman3071 said:
Not sure where you guys are seeing landscapers running 32:1,........
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Out here in the Summer temperatures are over 100 F daily, for close to 6 months out of the year. Landscapers are running their 2-stroke equipment full bore, from sunup to sundown.

They run HOT! So they run at bare minimum 40:1. Most of the ones I've talked to run 32:1, or even richer. It just doesn't make sense to run a lean oil mixture. You are risking at the very least shorter engine life. At the worst scored pistons and cylinder walls.

Much like all of these water thin viscosity automotive oils CAFE "recommends". Along with longer oil change intervals. It's all put forth because of emissions, nothing else.

Not to enhance engine life in the equipment, or vehicles they are run in. It all amounts to nothing but additional risk, with zero added reward.
 
Another thing you have to remember. Most all of this 2-stroke equipment is run at full throttle almost continuously.

Saws, hedge trimmers and the like have centrifugal clutches, and require full throttle operation. Even most power blowers are run full bore to get the maximum amount of air moving out of the nozzle. Weed eaters also need high RPM to perform best.

All air cooled 2-strokes run hot enough as it is. Lean oil mixtures drastically increase already high temperatures, and accelerate engine wear with reduced lubrication.

There is nothing to be gained by running these lean oil mixtures..... Except problems that will add to increased long term expense. All of this equipment is expensive. So it makes sense to run a richer oil mixture that will help to deliver the longest engine life.
 
I have 2 that want 50:1, 1 that wants 40:1, and 1 that wants 25:1. I just make one blend of 40:1 and run it in everything. I haven't hand a problem. I've been using Stihl brand 2-stroke oil (80-90% TMP ester) mixed in E10 87.
 
jeepman3071 said:
Twice as often? Hardly. I doubt anyone on this forum even if you were a commercial user would be able to tell the difference in engine life between 40:1 and 50:1, especially if you use a good oil like Red Armor, Amsoil, Husqvarna XP, Opti-2, etc.

Not sure where you guys are seeing landscapers running 32:1, I have a few commercial landscape customers and they run Red Armor, Supertech, and Husky oil at 50:1, and two of them run Amsoil Saber at 80:1. The recommendations back in the day for 25:1 and 32:1 were from when you actually mixed SAE 30 motor oil with the fuel. 2-stroke oil technology has progressed lightyears ahead of those days, and all equipment is designed with 50:1 mix in mind.

The dirt bike guys run 32:1 and 40:1, but that is because more oil = leaner air/fuel ratio and the engine can make more power. It also means it will run hotter, as fuel is important for cooling in a 2-stroke. You are way more likely to blow up a 2-stroke engine from your carburetor tuning being too lean than if you run 50:1.
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Stihl calls 50:1 "lean" - this does not match with your last paragraph, so there appears to be a disconnect in terminology.

In your area of the NE, temperatures are cooler than in the SE. I have run chainsaws at the 50:1 and scored cylinders. I now run my Stihl chainsaws at 32:1 and have never scored a cylinder, especially when chainsaw milling.

I posted the article referenced below earlier. The patent is a good read from a maker of two-stroke equipment and tells of the high volume of cooling air required with the lean 50:1 fuel mixes.

Running 40:1 in a 50:1 world.

I have been running 40:1 now for a while with regular ethanol free pump gas and red armor oil. My echo saws smoke a little bit more if I let them idle for say 20 seconds or more then I get back on the throttle. Biggest change I noticed is the 60cc echo pops on the first pull most of the time...
bobistheoilguy.com

And again, I use 32:1 on my chainsaws and my other OPE.

If you want to use 50:1, have at it. For me and my equipment, I have found 50:1 to be a false fuel oil "savings" due to expensive damage to equipment and lost productivity due to downtime.
 
97K15004WD said:
Stihl calls 50:1 "lean" - this does not match with your last paragraph, so there appears to be a disconnect in terminology.

In your area of the NE, temperatures are cooler than in the SE. I have run chainsaws at the 50:1 and scored cylinders. I now run my Stihl chainsaws at 32:1 and have never scored a cylinder, especially when chainsaw milling.

I posted the article referenced below earlier. The patent is a good read from a maker of two-stroke equipment and tells of the high volume of cooling air required with the lean 50:1 fuel mixes.

Running 40:1 in a 50:1 world.

I have been running 40:1 now for a while with regular ethanol free pump gas and red armor oil. My echo saws smoke a little bit more if I let them idle for say 20 seconds or more then I get back on the throttle. Biggest change I noticed is the 60cc echo pops on the first pull most of the time...
bobistheoilguy.com

And again, I use 32:1 on my chainsaws and my other OPE.

If you want to use 50:1, have at it. For me and my equipment, I have found 50:1 to be a false fuel oil "savings" due to expensive damage to equipment and lost productivity due to downtime.
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Yeah see 50:1 lasts long enough. Shutup and buy a new one or a battery powered one, we're trying to make the weather gooder mmmmmk.
 
I buy klotz snowmobile oil by the case in the winter time so any time i need a gallon of chainsaw gas I use that, rec 90 and klotz mixed 50:1, god I love that smell :love:
 
I'll chime in again, the more oil the more power and the lower the wear rate. 32 to 1 with an EG-D or FD oil is about the lowest wear rate unless it is a very high RPM engine. At which point 24 to 1 is a better choice. This is due to crankcase oil migration rate. Ever wonder why some 125cc racing engines eat crankshafts and pistons/rings and some don't? It's the oil ratio.

Even in low stress engines, we saw wear rates increase above 32 to 1, 100% of the time. And by 80-100 to 1, wear rates were, by memory, triple. Even with oils designed for that kind of ratio.

If you own an older 45-50cc Husqvarna chainsaw, they are 14,000 RPM engines. Don't run 50 to 1 in them.
 
97prizm said:
I use 100LL from the airport mixed with vp racing 2 stroke. Runs like a top.
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My son ran the high octane with that same VP oil and I have to say it liked it, in fact I had to adjust the carb back after I ran out of the gas I pinched from him. I am too cheap to run fuel that expensive.
 
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