Royal Purple says this about Castrol Edge

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: Patman
Originally Posted By: SnakeOil



Most of the RP haters simply can't find something else to complain about.


Some of us RP "haters" have real reason to dislike the oil. It simply has not performed for them. In my case, after years of me bashing RP for it's poor ability at maintaining it's viscosity, a rep from RP actually felt that I should run the oil first, do some used oil analysis, and see for myself how it performed. Well that backfired on them, because after running it in my wife's Honda, it thinned out from 11.3 cst to 8.8 cst in just 2400 miles! And the wear numbers were a lot higher too. In fact, I get much lower engine wear running Castrol GTX in her car than I did with Royal Purple! So how can I like an oil that costs so much, but yet can't even outperform a conventional oil?

If you search the RP used oil analysis on this board, you'll find a ton of them where the oil thinned out considerably in a short period of time and you'll also find the engine wear numbers are higher too. Simply put, this oil is all hype without any performance to back itself up.


How many OC's did you run the oil? Just once and for 2400 miles? That is ridiculous. As another poster mentioned swapping oil brands will always show some bad initial results the 1st time around. Run the oil for say 3 OCI's, of at least 5-7K per OC, and then see what it does.

 

[iunderpressure]

NHHEMI, I've been seeing what you see around here.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: ZZman
NHHEMI: So what kind of miles did you put on those vehicles? What kind of OCI's were you using?


It all depends on what I am using it in???

New vehicles under warranty = I never exceed the mfg's max allowed drain interval while under warranty. Generally I do it at 5-6K as it is an easy mileage figure to remember and I do the tire rotation at the same time. I understand I could use regular conventional oil for such a short OCI but I prefer the added protection at cold start, added thermal protection while towing my boat during the summer, and just the over all improved protection against wear and crud build up of a synthetic/RP. My vehicle also run a smoother and quieter on synthetic/RP.

Used vehicles/vehicles out of warranty = I will run RP to approx 10K, with a filter change and top off around 5K, then usually change the oil at the 10K mark. The longest I ever went on the RP was approx 13K. If I were routinely going to do 1 year/10K+ OCI's with ANY oil I would only do so with used oil analysis verifying it is safe to do so. Up to the 10K I was always confident the RP was good. I have a friend who ran some RP 10w30 in a 2001 Dodge Ram 5.9L( gas - 360 )to 15K( was about 14 months or so +/- ). He did a used oil analysis at 10K and it showed enough life left to make him confortable going another 5K. I just never went that long.

Hot Rods, Muscle Cars, Drag Engines, Motorcycles = in these applications I generally ran it for the year. I would start running the vehicles in late spring and through to to early fall. I usually would change the oil before I put them up for the winter but soemtimes I would wait and do it in the spring. The car engines got some hard use from me so I always felt it was just best to change the oil each year. None of them really would get a lot of driven miles on them, so I couldn't really do a mileage based OCI, but they were used hard so once a year was a good idea I thought. If I did use one of them a lot during the summer I would do an OC as needed. I basically did the same with the Motorcycle. One change a year.

BTW - I have done quite a few engine tear downs and rebuilds on hot rods, muscle cars, and some drag engines( just weekend hobby stuff not professionally ). Both mine and with friends( I was REALLY into muscle cars and hot rods back in the day and we tore engines apart and rebuilt them all the time just to do it or to change something not because they blew up ). The engines were always in excellent condition with minimal to no wear and ZERO crud/sludge build up, varnish, etc... when run on RP.

The absolutel most miles I ever ran a vehicle on just RP was a Road Runner I beat the absolute snot out of. That car was driven ALL the time almost year round and I did 8-10K OCI's. Approx 2-3 OC's a year. Again, I drove it a LOT. I rebuilt the engine when I got it and never tore that one apart BUT it ran as strong at the time I sold it as it ever did and never used a drop of oil and made zero engine noise. As I recall I put just a hair under 80K on it. +/-.

 

[ZZman]

Wish you would have tore that Road Runner engine down......

**So would you say you were surprised at the look of the engines you tore apart using RP compared to others that you had seen that ran other oils?

 

[wgtoys]

Harumph, why reference an industry standard motor oil test when you can pull out an obsolete grease test to show that your product is really the superior one. The thing is, some people will fall for Royal Purple's marketing [censored].

"Maybe the RP, with its higher detergency, just cleaned a bunch of deposits hanging out in the engine."

Am I the only one who is sick and tired of that argument? For years people defended high Fe numbers in Mobil 1 used oil analysis with this high detergency nonsense.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

It is absolutely silly to be brand loyal.

 

[UNC017]

Originally Posted By: ZZman
Wish you would have tore that Road Runner engine down......


I dont' know about others, but I'm having a hard time outliving engines. Seriously, I've built or bought several new and in up to 300,000 miles on the 318 fully rebuilt in 1982 and 257,000 on the 3.5 bought in 1993, I've just flat never had reason to go into them any deeper than a re-gasket.

The 318 actually is getting tired and needs some work, but what will it really tell me? I ran it many years back in the 80s on Exxon Uniflow and then Superflow before switching to Valvoline in the late 80s and Mobil 1 in the early 90s. And think how much the formulations changed even within 1 brand over that time.

All of which is to say that unless you find some oil that's *really* [censored], or you have a specific lubrication issue like huge valve springs and radical lift on a flat tappet cam, you'll probably never notice it in the life of an engine. Only the nit-pickings of used oil analysis will reveal differences, and even if you are showing the reported "high iron" seen with M1... is it actually removing enough metal from the engine to prevent it from running great at 300,000 miles? Not likely.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
It is absolutely silly to be brand loyal.




I guess you can call me brand loyal since Iv'e used it, M1, for 31 years, but I don't perceive myself as silly for it. M1 has been a great product to use for me, my family, and many friends I know.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

M1, Pennzoil, Conoco, Castrol, valvoline, chevron/havoline and other brands have kept me extended family running with no oil related issues for as long as I can remember. Brand loyalty would lock me out of choices I can make mainly based on price. Seeing how I have torn down some old engines, Worked with my grandfather as a teenager building small racecars, Running offroad trails , and generally having an interest in machinery maintenance I have yet to see a reason to be brand loyal.
Now my employer is brand loyal and will only purchase from lubricant distributors that supply a certain brand opf lubricant, but that is becasue we are affiliated and that's just business sense.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
blah, blah, blah...


Other than "Wishful Thinking", what methodology did you use to determine RP to be better than oem speced oils like Mobil 1 0w-40 or even conventional?

Those old cars were designed to run on dino, right?

 

[SnakeOil]

Originally Posted By: wgtoys
Am I the only one who is sick and tired of that argument? For years people defended high Fe numbers in Mobil 1 used oil analysis with this high detergency nonsense.

Prove it otherwise!

The fact of the matter is NOBODY knows why used oil analysis turn out the way they do. We can only speculate based upon the limited info a used oil analysis shows.

Perhaps it WAS additional cleaning

Perhaps there was slight additive clash with the old oil

Maybe there were more cold starts, more short trips than normal, or another change in driving style

Maybe something got sucked through the air filter that generated a couple of additional wear points

The fact of the matter is that YOU DON'T KNOW. I don't know either. But doing a couple of intervals will give you a broad picture with a used oil analysis.

LOTS OF PEOPLE on here have gotten poor results when using a synthetic for the first time after years of conventional. Give it a rest.

RP is SL API certified. There are many positive used oil analysis. Also, it's been said many times on here. ANY SL/SM OIL WILL SERVE YOU WELL WITHIN REASONABLE INTERVALS.

If you don't like the marketing, who care's? I think Toyota advertisements are boring and lifeless. Does that mean the product still isn't good?

Give it a rest already. There is nothing more worthless than a bunch of people forming opinions based on little or baseless information.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: ZZman
Wish you would have tore that Road Runner engine down......

**So would you say you were surprised at the look of the engines you tore apart using RP compared to others that you had seen that ran other oils?


Really there was never a need to tear the RR engine down. It was only mildly modified and was basically a daily driver for about 4 years. I sure had fun with it though.

It ran so good I had no reason to tear it down and I never fel the need to upgrade components to make it more powerful. I had other toys for that. Had I torn it down I have no doubt I would have seen a new appearing engine inside.

I was surprised maybe the 1st time or two I did it just because the interior of the engines was so clean compared to what I was used to seeing with conventional oils and there was a lot less wear. Got used to it after that. I will say the one that really surprised us( myself and friends )was the 455 Olds from a 69 442( not original motor )we tore down after we had built it about 1.5 years previous. We ran that thing on RP 20W-50. That sucker was really souped up and run HARD at the drag strip. The owner was not happy with his low 12's and wanted to drop to the 11's so we tore it down for a rebuild. You would swear it had just been built. We could not believe it when we tore into it.

I have done a few on Redline and a couple on M1 and that is about it for my experience with engine tear downs that are run on synthetic besides the RP ones. These all took place quite a few years back as well. I would put the RP and RL about equal and the M1 showing slightly more wear. All 3 synthetics produced exceptionally clean engines. Again however, these are older formulas of these oils and not what you would see today BUT if they performed that good abck then they should do better today I would assume.

I have worked on engines run on many conventional oils( GTX, QS, Pennzoil, Valvoline, Amalie, Kendall )though. Actually, that is what all my friends and I got started on. M1 was about it at 1st besides Amsoil and we bought into all that early bull about synthetics being bad so we avoided it. Engines we tore down that ahd run on the conventional oils deiniftiely showed more wear and they were much dirtier when comparded to the later ones we ran on synthetics.

We experienced a few bearing( mainly connecting rod but I seem to recall 1 or 2 cam bearing issues )and other internal part failures on some of the real high HP engines when pushed to the max at the strip or out on the street if running conventional oils that we felt were caused by inadequate protection from the oil. I actually trashed the crank bearings on another RR running GTX because I put it through too many high RPM runs. I truly believe it would have held up with RP or another quality synthetic. Maybe not but it should have held together longer at the least?

This was all a long time ago though and today's conventional oils are leaps and bounds better than those I used back then just as the synthetic oils are. Not sure my experiences back then comparing engines torn down on syn and dino would compare to the same results today. I would still put my money on the syn engines but I have no doubt the conventional oils have closed the gap a lot.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: ZZman
Wish you would have tore that Road Runner engine down......


I dont' know about others, but I'm having a hard time outliving engines. Seriously, I've built or bought several new and in up to 300,000 miles on the 318 fully rebuilt in 1982 and 257,000 on the 3.5 bought in 1993, I've just flat never had reason to go into them any deeper than a re-gasket.

The 318 actually is getting tired and needs some work, but what will it really tell me? I ran it many years back in the 80s on Exxon Uniflow and then Superflow before switching to Valvoline in the late 80s and Mobil 1 in the early 90s. And think how much the formulations changed even within 1 brand over that time.

All of which is to say that unless you find some oil that's *really* [censored], or you have a specific lubrication issue like huge valve springs and radical lift on a flat tappet cam, you'll probably never notice it in the life of an engine. Only the nit-pickings of used oil analysis will reveal differences, and even if you are showing the reported "high iron" seen with M1... is it actually removing enough metal from the engine to prevent it from running great at 300,000 miles? Not likely.



Don't misunderstand. The overwhelming vast majority of those tear downs were because we wanted to do it for one reason or the other. Yes, we had a few failures as a result of how badly we beat on some of those engines but generally we tore them down because we wanted to. Usually to beef them up and increase power OR just because we had run them so many times at the strip we wanted to tear them down before they blew.

For me, seeing as I was a MOPAR guy, I also had to deal with ring issues in 440's and worn valve guides/valve seals that kept popping off in 383's both of which were common problems to those motors. I swear at one time I could pull a 440/383 apart blind folded and then put it back together again by feel. Not now as it has been so long but once upon a time I could.

None of us were made of money and buying blocks, cranks, rods, rocker shafts, etc... is expensive when you are a teenager/early twenties something punk kid.

There was also a LARGE group of us all with 2-3 cars at least so someone always needed something done.