Rotella Synthetic vs. "Racing" oils

[ES13Raven]

How does Rotella Synthetic compare to some of the motorcycle "racing" oils out there?

There was a discussion going on in another forum about whether Rotella was good enough to be used for racing, and if it is why don't any of the racing teams use Rotella?

This would be for Sportbikes with high rpm redlines (13-16k)

 

[cos]

Rotella is first and foremost a heavy duty diesel oil. It just wouldn't make good marketing sense for Shell to go outside of their oil's intended target/market/usage even though it just happens to be an excellent bike oil too. Shell could bottle a MC version, get it JASO certified and call it Rotella Motorcycle Oil - that could work but would it sell or create confusion?

 

[Jaybird]

Mike Alesi was monitoring a moto board awhile back and the same discussion came up. He confirmed that their race team was indeed using Rotella T in their race bikes, but were being sponsored by Maxima Racing Oils.

Just because a race team hangs an oil company banner behind them, or their stickers on the bike, doesn't mean they are putting that product in the bike.

(modern motocross bikes see the same redlines)

 

[Lorenzo]

Originally Posted By: Jaybird
Just because a race team hangs an oil company banner behind them, or their stickers on the bike, doesn't mean they are putting that product in the bike.
I recall back when Nicky Hayden was campaigning the RC51 in AMA Superbike. There was a photo of him wearing Daytona boots with a Joe Rocket logo, and the bike had an Akrapovic exhaust with Jardine stickers. And the current Yosh Suzuki appears to be using Brembo brake lines and rotors despite having a Galfer sticker on the bike.

 

[TucsonDon]

Originally Posted By: Jaybird
He confirmed that their race team was indeed using Rotella T in their race bikes ...

Really? That's terrific. It validates my choice in oils.

My opinion is that Shell is happy to enjoy the enthusiasm of bikers for the oil, but is, as Cos said, focused on the truck and fleet market. Anything that suggests a less-than-laser-focus on that market could hurt Shell relative to Chevron's and Mobil's pursuit of the same market.

So, Rotella is great oil and works well in bikes. Bikers seem to know this informally. That appears good enough for Shell.

 

[Jaybird]

Motorsports sales can't be more than blips on Shell's radar.

I dunno, Don...seems to me that the fleet market isn't so enamored with marketing spiels and forced perceptions.
Fleet guys see performance first hand, and do not have to depend on what a marketeer tries to convince them of. -Unlike the common motorsports consumer, that thrives on marketing and perceptions.

 

[02zx9r]

I think you get a very good robust add pack with hdeo's at a fraction of the cost of the "racing" oils. Although maxima is a very good line of oils and if I were sponsored by them and got the oil free, then I would certainly use it.

 

[TucsonDon]

Originally Posted By: Jaybird
Motorsports sales can't be more than blips on Shell's radar.

Agree ... which is why Shell is happy to enjoy the enthusiasm, but won't do much to sustain it or foster more.

Originally Posted By: Jaybird
I dunno, Don...seems to me that the fleet market isn't so enamored with marketing spiels and forced perceptions.
Fleet guys see performance first hand, and do not have to depend on what a marketeer tries to convince them of.

I agree with that too, and I wasn't suggesting anything but that. But the question is this: how much performance difference is there between Rotella T and, say, Delvac or Delo? Probably not all that much. Which tells me there's probably some brand loyalty at work as well. And that's what may erode if Shell were to be perceived as catering too much to the motorcycle market.

It's not really a question of marketing snake oil ... it's a question of the perception of dedication to the truck market and what that might do in a competitive market where performance deltas are razor thin.

 

[wileyE]

I'm going to go against the grain and say a TRUE race oil (not just one that's marketed as one) is different than a hdeo by design. The hdeo may have a fair bit of ep and AW additive but it has a lot of detergent adds and the ash that goes with it. A race oil wouldn't need these adds or want them. One reason would be the lack of need for extended service, another may be the possibility of preignition cause detonation from any ash buildup, a third could be the competition for surface between the aw ep and the detergent adds.

 

[Jaybird]

I agree with you, wiley. The best possible oil a racer could use, would be one custom formulated for his engine and his racing conditions.
(ladies, please don't be offended by my sexist labeling of the racer...I realize it could be her engine too

)
But the true custom fluid builder is also going to have to contend with the synergy of the package, no matter what adds are, or aren't, present.
The custom fluid builder has a blank pallet to work with, and a very specific picture to paint. So he can provide the very best option.
But, with the ability of shelf oils to handle a majority of todays racing situations, in a multitude of venues, it ends up being questions of cost effectiveness and availability.

 

[wileyE]

Guess my point is bike forums often point to hdeo as the oil to use because of it's elevated AW #'s. Somehow assuming it will translate into less wear or better performance, or, suitable for racing. Just saying this may not be case as the effectiveness of the AW can be offset by the high detergent, the hdeo NEEDS the elevated AW to make a balanced package and retain high tbn for long drain and soot control. Bikes, especially race bikes don't use long oci and soot control. An oil with lower detergent AND lowered aw "balance" can give just as good performance without the ash. And if an oil had lower detergency and the same aw as hdeo (balanced toward the wear side), it would perform better in the race and motorcycle environment, without all the ash.

I've used hdeo myself for reasonable long oci in street bikes but I'd never consider it a good oil for the track, which is what the thread starter was asking.

 

[beanoil]

Originally Posted By: Jaybird
Mike Alesi was monitoring a moto board awhile back and the same discussion came up. He confirmed that their race team was indeed using Rotella T in their race bikes, but were being sponsored by Maxima Racing Oils.

Just because a race team hangs an oil company banner behind them, or their stickers on the bike, doesn't mean they are putting that product in the bike.

(modern motocross bikes see the same redlines)

I'd be interested in seeing that. It is HIGHLY unlikely that Alessi would know what the heck was in his bikes at any given time. It is also very unlikely that any factory team would choose to purchase Rotella when they would be given a sponsors product, or that the sponsor would tolerate another product in their place. Say the bike failed during a crucial race, and a lubricant failure was diagnosed. (OK, rare, and probably fantasy, but follow along). The report hits the web, Transworld, Dirt Rider, and Maxima's reputation is questioned? Lechien wouldn't be happy, and a race team isn't going to put themselves in that position. When Michelin could not supply Factory Suzuki with enough of the proper tires for supercross, and the performance of the tires wasn't what was expected, DeCoster immediately notified the press, and switched brands. There was too much risk of bad press otherwise. Besides, Alessi has trouble talking to himself, much less anybody else. Here is just a snippet from an interview attempt....
"Asking Mike Alessi if he wanted to do a video interview resulted in an, "Ask my dad." Checking in with the senior Alessi, we got a, "What are the questions? Anything controversial?" That stance is somewhat understandable, given the occasional turmoil of Mike and Jeff's pro careers to date. But putting limits on the questions that can be asked of Mike (and hovering nearby during interviews) results in bland questions, Mike squirming the whole time, and a boring result for everyone."

 

[Jaybird]

A man saw his pit crew filling the box with Rotella.
He stated on the internet that he saw this happen, and Alessi came in and confirmed what the man thought he saw. (they were both there)
Make up all the scenarios and assumptions you want.

Last DNF that the public knew exactly what happened with a pro racers engine was when the rider ran out of fuel.

And if you think the sponsors have anything to say about a race teams decisions, you'd be wrong. These teams decide who is and who isn't, and what is and what isn't. Factory Honda and the other bike sponsors may be the exceptions to this.

They won't "tolerate" a race teams decisions? Please....
The sponsors only real worry is if his banner is still flying.
And I highly doubt **** having one thing to say at all, in fear of losing his banner and sticker space.
You seem to think maybe he would pull Maxima's sponsorship if he saw them use Rotella? I find that very funny.

Btw..ever hear of a non-disclosure contract? Hmmmm.....

 

[yardsale]

Originally Posted By: beanoil
Originally Posted By: Jaybird
Mike Alesi was monitoring a moto board awhile back and the same discussion came up. He confirmed that their race team was indeed using Rotella T in their race bikes, but were being sponsored by Maxima Racing Oils.

Just because a race team hangs an oil company banner behind them, or their stickers on the bike, doesn't mean they are putting that product in the bike.

(modern motocross bikes see the same redlines)

I'd be interested in seeing that. It is HIGHLY unlikely that Alessi would know what the heck was in his bikes at any given time. It is also very unlikely that any factory team would choose to purchase Rotella when they would be given a sponsors product, or that the sponsor would tolerate another product in their place. Say the bike failed during a crucial race, and a lubricant failure was diagnosed. (OK, rare, and probably fantasy, but follow along). The report hits the web, Transworld, Dirt Rider, and Maxima's reputation is questioned? Lechien wouldn't be happy, and a race team isn't going to put themselves in that position. When Michelin could not supply Factory Suzuki with enough of the proper tires for supercross, and the performance of the tires wasn't what was expected, DeCoster immediately notified the press, and switched brands. There was too much risk of bad press otherwise. Besides, Alessi has trouble talking to himself, much less anybody else. Here is just a snippet from an interview attempt....
"Asking Mike Alessi if he wanted to do a video interview resulted in an, "Ask my dad." Checking in with the senior Alessi, we got a, "What are the questions? Anything controversial?" That stance is somewhat understandable, given the occasional turmoil of Mike and Jeff's pro careers to date. But putting limits on the questions that can be asked of Mike (and hovering nearby during interviews) results in bland questions, Mike squirming the whole time, and a boring result for everyone."


This was on KTMTalk.com, in one of the many Rotella oil debate threads. It was actually Tony Alessi that made the Rotella confirmation. He is a member of that site, but not a very active one.

 

[Garandman]

I bought a California Scientific windshield for my V-Strom and found a FAQ from Mark Lawrence that informed my choice of Rotella Synthetic. http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Oils1.html