Roger Penske buys Saturn

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Anies
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Anies
You are forgetting the one major resource issue that will help "alleviate" GM and remove some burden from them.

R&D. With Penske shopping around the world to find vehicles etc it will remove some of the leg work off GM. They will be given specifications for the vehicles to build them, they no longer need to research and develop models for Saturn, just manufacture them. R&D removal will save GM millions of dollars if not a few billion. This is good news and GM will be able to breath a little easier. That and the selling of the brand and other brands.

GM sold Saturn, Hummer and Saab. They are jettisoning weight from the sinking ship but also building themselves up.


If Penske bought Saturn (for I assume a one-time fee), how does this translate into money saved in R&D for GM?

It is a one-time temporary influx of capital that will soon be depleted due to the rate GM is burning through money.....


Because GM WILL NOT BE doing the R&D. They don't need to spend money on another divisions R&D. Body styles etc. Penkse will shop the world. Think of videogames, developers and publishers. Some companies will "license" games that are already developed and "translate" them to a specific region, ala the Final Fantasy games(this is an analogy).

They don't have to pay designers, craftsmen etc to build, shape and market the vehicles. Also they do not need to do marketing analysis and trends. This all is on top of the "lump sum" Penske gives them. They make money on selling the brand, and save money in the interum.

This cuts costs. Another consideration to take into account this is also the same for Hummer and Saab. They do not have to fund the development of these models so their bottom line isn't affected anymore by them.


In the big scheme of things, after GM started turning Saturn into "just another GM" and killed all the individuality of the brand, I imagine that their R&D costs for the Saturn brand were basically insignificant in terms of their overall bottom-line.

I don't see the loss of the Saturn brand "costs" nor the one-time influx of capital having any affect on GM's ability to stay afloat or not. It is a small cost-cutting measure compared to something like the termination of Pontiac.

 

[ViragoBry]

The Sky and Astra were the two best things Saturn had going for it IMO. Everything else in their lineup can be bought at a Chevy dealer. It's too bad the Sky had to die with the Solstice. Actually, it's too bad the Solstice had to exist at all, as that would've left the Sky as the only game in town - exclusivity for the Saturn brand, much like the Astra. What they should've NEVER done is brand-engineered Saturn to be nothing but re-badged Chevys. They WERE unique in the beginning.

 

[saberz]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Anies
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Anies
You are forgetting the one major resource issue that will help "alleviate" GM and remove some burden from them.

R&D. With Penske shopping around the world to find vehicles etc it will remove some of the leg work off GM. They will be given specifications for the vehicles to build them, they no longer need to research and develop models for Saturn, just manufacture them. R&D removal will save GM millions of dollars if not a few billion. This is good news and GM will be able to breath a little easier. That and the selling of the brand and other brands.

GM sold Saturn, Hummer and Saab. They are jettisoning weight from the sinking ship but also building themselves up.


If Penske bought Saturn (for I assume a one-time fee), how does this translate into money saved in R&D for GM?

It is a one-time temporary influx of capital that will soon be depleted due to the rate GM is burning through money.....


Because GM WILL NOT BE doing the R&D. They don't need to spend money on another divisions R&D. Body styles etc. Penkse will shop the world. Think of videogames, developers and publishers. Some companies will "license" games that are already developed and "translate" them to a specific region, ala the Final Fantasy games(this is an analogy).

They don't have to pay designers, craftsmen etc to build, shape and market the vehicles. Also they do not need to do marketing analysis and trends. This all is on top of the "lump sum" Penske gives them. They make money on selling the brand, and save money in the interum.

This cuts costs. Another consideration to take into account this is also the same for Hummer and Saab. They do not have to fund the development of these models so their bottom line isn't affected anymore by them.


In the big scheme of things, after GM started turning Saturn into "just another GM" and killed all the individuality of the brand, I imagine that their R&D costs for the Saturn brand were basically insignificant in terms of their overall bottom-line.

I don't see the loss of the Saturn brand "costs" nor the one-time influx of capital having any affect on GM's ability to stay afloat or not. It is a small cost-cutting measure compared to something like the termination of Pontiac.



Actually they still spent money on R&D. The engine and transmissions may be the same, the body styling, design, and modeling cost money. Aesthetics cost huge amounts of money and time. Selling the brand removes debt, and additional costs for maintaining the brand. To you it may not seem like much, but to GM, every little bit helps. Again this also goes for Hummer and Saab. They are making no profit, but alleviating debt.

 

[saberz]

Originally Posted By: ViragoBry
The Sky and Astra were the two best things Saturn had going for it IMO. Everything else in their lineup can be bought at a Chevy dealer. It's too bad the Sky had to die with the Solstice. Actually, it's too bad the Solstice had to exist at all, as that would've left the Sky as the only game in town - exclusivity for the Saturn brand, much like the Astra. What they should've NEVER done is brand-engineered Saturn to be nothing but re-badged Chevys. They WERE unique in the beginning.

Aesthetically they were very nice, the Solstice had more going for it than the Sky did. I drove the Astra for a test drive(Manual) car was slower than molasses 1st to 2nd(where it counts merging onto a highway from a stop(Jersey). Now the ride and comfort of the Astra wasn't great but not bad. The stick when shifting was very smooth and seamless, it felt like the stick was submerged in some liquid-gel.

Wasn't to fond of the interior styling or the performance of the vehicle, but externally it definitely had the curb appeal I like. My TC was just way more bang for the buck compared to the Astra and cheaper. An Astra compared to my TC option for option was several thousand more. To top it off Saturn dealerships around here were much like Honda dealerships. They didn't want your business. They wouldn't give you the time of day unless you were going to buy a car THAT day.

 

[dishdude]

Actually the current line of Saturns is great. I think it suffered from the economy, lack of marketing support and the Astra being overpriced due to the weak dollar.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Anies
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Anies
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Anies
You are forgetting the one major resource issue that will help "alleviate" GM and remove some burden from them.

R&D. With Penske shopping around the world to find vehicles etc it will remove some of the leg work off GM. They will be given specifications for the vehicles to build them, they no longer need to research and develop models for Saturn, just manufacture them. R&D removal will save GM millions of dollars if not a few billion. This is good news and GM will be able to breath a little easier. That and the selling of the brand and other brands.

GM sold Saturn, Hummer and Saab. They are jettisoning weight from the sinking ship but also building themselves up.


If Penske bought Saturn (for I assume a one-time fee), how does this translate into money saved in R&D for GM?

It is a one-time temporary influx of capital that will soon be depleted due to the rate GM is burning through money.....


Because GM WILL NOT BE doing the R&D. They don't need to spend money on another divisions R&D. Body styles etc. Penkse will shop the world. Think of videogames, developers and publishers. Some companies will "license" games that are already developed and "translate" them to a specific region, ala the Final Fantasy games(this is an analogy).

They don't have to pay designers, craftsmen etc to build, shape and market the vehicles. Also they do not need to do marketing analysis and trends. This all is on top of the "lump sum" Penske gives them. They make money on selling the brand, and save money in the interum.

This cuts costs. Another consideration to take into account this is also the same for Hummer and Saab. They do not have to fund the development of these models so their bottom line isn't affected anymore by them.


In the big scheme of things, after GM started turning Saturn into "just another GM" and killed all the individuality of the brand, I imagine that their R&D costs for the Saturn brand were basically insignificant in terms of their overall bottom-line.

I don't see the loss of the Saturn brand "costs" nor the one-time influx of capital having any affect on GM's ability to stay afloat or not. It is a small cost-cutting measure compared to something like the termination of Pontiac.



Actually they still spent money on R&D. The engine and transmissions may be the same, the body styling, design, and modeling cost money. Aesthetics cost huge amounts of money and time. Selling the brand removes debt, and additional costs for maintaining the brand. To you it may not seem like much, but to GM, every little bit helps. Again this also goes for Hummer and Saab. They are making no profit, but alleviating debt.


I didn't say they didn't spend money on R&D, I said it wasn't a significant amount (IMHO).

Compared to the $50 billion they were just handed to "stay afloat" and "restructure", I imagine the costs of maintaining the Saturn brand and vehicles, which as echoed by another poster above, are just basically re-branded Chevies now (not like it used to be, where the Saturn cars were genuinely unique) is a drop in the bucket.

I understand that every cent counts (and agree with you here), but I don't see the selling of Saturn having any "final role" in whether GM makes it or not. Turning around the company and SELLING VEHICLES is what will do that.

The big thing for GM now is getting people to buy their products after all the money the tax payers have given them. Most people are none too happy about that situation......

 

[smithph]

Originally Posted By: ViragoBry
The Sky and Astra were the two best things Saturn had going for it IMO. Everything else in their lineup can be bought at a Chevy dealer. It's too bad the Sky had to die with the Solstice. Actually, it's too bad the Solstice had to exist at all, as that would've left the Sky as the only game in town - exclusivity for the Saturn brand, much like the Astra. What they should've NEVER done is brand-engineered Saturn to be nothing but re-badged Chevys. They WERE unique in the beginning.

To bad both the sky and astra are being dropped from the Penske lineup. Saturn sales rep indicated both would be gone before long.

Actually the Saturn Vue is a unique platform to Saturn only for 2008 and 2009. Chevy was scheduled to get it soon as a 2010 model and maybe one other GM brand, but the bankruptcy may change those plans. We purchased a Vue this past weekend and trust me there is nothing like it on the other GM dealer lots yet, but that may change soon.

FYI: The Saturn dealer I dealt with offered the GM partner price (employee price plus ~1 point), $1250 standard rebate, $1500 GM loyalty rebate, and used all the points on my GM credit card (not just the normal point limit by vehicle type). The partner price and full GM card points are a bit unusual.

 

[ViragoBry]

"We purchased a Vue this past weekend and trust me there is nothing like it on the other GM dealer lots yet, but that may change soon."

It's going to change very soon.

http://www.chevrolet.com/pages/open/default/family/equinox.do

 

[saberz]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Anies
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Anies
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Anies
You are forgetting the one major resource issue that will help "alleviate" GM and remove some burden from them.

R&D. With Penske shopping around the world to find vehicles etc it will remove some of the leg work off GM. They will be given specifications for the vehicles to build them, they no longer need to research and develop models for Saturn, just manufacture them. R&D removal will save GM millions of dollars if not a few billion. This is good news and GM will be able to breath a little easier. That and the selling of the brand and other brands.

GM sold Saturn, Hummer and Saab. They are jettisoning weight from the sinking ship but also building themselves up.


If Penske bought Saturn (for I assume a one-time fee), how does this translate into money saved in R&D for GM?

It is a one-time temporary influx of capital that will soon be depleted due to the rate GM is burning through money.....


Because GM WILL NOT BE doing the R&D. They don't need to spend money on another divisions R&D. Body styles etc. Penkse will shop the world. Think of videogames, developers and publishers. Some companies will "license" games that are already developed and "translate" them to a specific region, ala the Final Fantasy games(this is an analogy).

They don't have to pay designers, craftsmen etc to build, shape and market the vehicles. Also they do not need to do marketing analysis and trends. This all is on top of the "lump sum" Penske gives them. They make money on selling the brand, and save money in the interum.

This cuts costs. Another consideration to take into account this is also the same for Hummer and Saab. They do not have to fund the development of these models so their bottom line isn't affected anymore by them.


In the big scheme of things, after GM started turning Saturn into "just another GM" and killed all the individuality of the brand, I imagine that their R&D costs for the Saturn brand were basically insignificant in terms of their overall bottom-line.

I don't see the loss of the Saturn brand "costs" nor the one-time influx of capital having any affect on GM's ability to stay afloat or not. It is a small cost-cutting measure compared to something like the termination of Pontiac.



Actually they still spent money on R&D. The engine and transmissions may be the same, the body styling, design, and modeling cost money. Aesthetics cost huge amounts of money and time. Selling the brand removes debt, and additional costs for maintaining the brand. To you it may not seem like much, but to GM, every little bit helps. Again this also goes for Hummer and Saab. They are making no profit, but alleviating debt.


I didn't say they didn't spend money on R&D, I said it wasn't a significant amount (IMHO).

Compared to the $50 billion they were just handed to "stay afloat" and "restructure", I imagine the costs of maintaining the Saturn brand and vehicles, which as echoed by another poster above, are just basically re-branded Chevies now (not like it used to be, where the Saturn cars were genuinely unique) is a drop in the bucket.

I understand that every cent counts (and agree with you here), but I don't see the selling of Saturn having any "final role" in whether GM makes it or not. Turning around the company and SELLING VEHICLES is what will do that.

The big thing for GM now is getting people to buy their products after all the money the tax payers have given them. Most people are none too happy about that situation......



I didn't want what i said to translate as it being a major deciding factor in GM staying around. Just stated that every bit helps and selling it will remove and offset a good portion of debt(not major, but still worthy amount). And I agree with you down to everything you said there. They need to have people trust in purchasing their vehicles.

Now granted the Equinox has been a very good seller for them, especially used off lease ones. That has been their major seller especially around my location. I went to several Chevy dealers who had Equinox's I was interested in, one was a nice maroon/red with full service records. It was brought in THAT DAY and SOLD before I could get down there. They were doing work on the car(maintenance etc).

 

[smithph]

Originally Posted By: ViragoBry
"We purchased a Vue this past weekend and trust me there is nothing like it on the other GM dealer lots yet, but that may change soon."

It's going to change very soon.

http://www.chevrolet.com/pages/open/default/family/equinox.do


yep, A stretched version of the Vue with a smaller V6. Looks good and should sell well if GM can kept its customer base. The 3.6 vvt engine in the Vue XR and Redline is nice.