Rocker panels disappearing

[jsean]

How bad does this rust look? Is it structural or can the vehicle continue to be used for a couple more years?
They’re on an older neighbor’s vehicle who isn’t very mechanically inclined and asked me to take a look.
I’ve never had rust on my vehicles bad enough to cause the rocker panel to be crumbling and having holes in them.

I had him use a screw driver to poke the pinch weld seam and he said they felt solid.

First 2 pictures are the right side and the next 2 pictures are the left side.

First 2 pictures are the right side and the next 2 pictures are the left side.

 

[skyactiv]

Looks like the inner rocker panel is rusting so nope. That car might not hold up as well if it gets T boned and that rust could put it over the edge to a fuel line rupture and fiery death. Would you want a pregnant family member driving that car?

 

[mosaud1998]

Is that a Honda Accord by chance?

 

[supton]

Don't know what this vehicle is. If it's a unibody car, then it's definitely losing strength. Even if it's BOF it's compromised. How much? Eh, I'd rock it myself, but if I could find any other spots with rot like that, I'd be moving on, it's time.

Pretty sure that would not be on the road long in NH, I think most inspection shops would fail for that. That being said, it looks like our inspection is going away next year so I'll be curious how long before that becomes the norm here.

 

[eljefino]

That's not great. A good test would be jacking the car by the factory jack point, if it holds, the car is still solid. Notably, the home gamer using the car's jack or a suitable substitute will be lifting (nearly) half the weight of the car by the corner, as the RR suspension unloads while the LF compresses with the weight transfer. A shop with a lift, lifting by all four corners, will have a better time with a rust bucket as each corner only carries one quarter the weight.

On unibody FWD cars, typically the rear axle swingarm mounts to something just inboard of the rocker in this area. That would be my biggest concern, along with collateral damage to brake lines.

It would be prudent to vacuum the rust chips out of there, spray some fogging oil or fluid film inside, then cover the holes with aluminum flashing and self tapper screws as an absolute minimum, to keep road spray out and to slow down future damage.

 

[D60]

While I'm far from an expert on rust (thank God!!), I know it's difficult to make a determination from pictures unless it's blatant. I've seen some of the resto shows chase rust for feet under paint that was not yet bubbling, and I've seen guys put a hammer through frames that looked fine.

Based on the pics, I agree it's something I'd rock but wouldn't let my wife drive.

 

[jsean]

Looks like the inner rocker panel is rusting so nope. That car might not hold up as well if it gets T boned and that rust could put it over the edge to a fuel line rupture and fiery death. Would you want a pregnant family member driving that car?

That makes sense. I hadn’t noticed that inner rocker till I saw your comment and re-looked at the picture.

I’d have either fixed it sooner or gotten rid of a vehicle if it started to show any rust holes at all. No way would I let the wife or a family member even drive around something like that, especially if kids were getting ferried around.

Funny thing, there are a ton of old Fords driving around here with gaping holes in their rocker panels - I guess most of them are just oblivious

 

[jsean]

Is that a Honda Accord by chance?

Ha! Old Accords around here disappeared a few years back. Shame really - rust took them and the old Nissans out.

This is a 2003 (or maybe ‘04) Pontiac Vibe.

 

[jsean]

Don't know what this vehicle is. If it's a unibody car, then it's definitely losing strength. Even if it's BOF it's compromised. How much? Eh, I'd rock it myself, but if I could find any other spots with rot like that, I'd be moving on, it's time.

Pretty sure that would not be on the road long in NH, I think most inspection shops would fail for that. That being said, it looks like our inspection is going away next year so I'll be curious how long before that becomes the norm here.

You’re right - it’s a unibody (a 2003 or a 2004 Pontiac Vibe, it’s one of the pre facelift ones. Single owner too, bought new by this guy). I didn’t see any other spots on the rocker panel, but I just did a quick inspection when he had called me over. I did noticed that portion of the rear wheel well where these mate to are somewhat gone too.
I could see the hole in the rocker panel through both the rear wheel wells.

I’m assuming this further weakens the back structure of the car?

Ah NH - between there and VT, I’m always looking for another Saab . This is an inspection free state so several rusty hoopties rolling around here.

 

[jsean]

While I'm far from an expert on rust (thank God!!), I know it's difficult to make a determination from pictures unless it's blatant. I've seen some of the resto shows chase rust for feet under paint that was not yet bubbling, and I've seen guys put a hammer through frames that looked fine.

Based on the pics, I agree it's something I'd rock but wouldn't let my wife drive.

Tomorrow I plan on going by and taking a screw drive to poke around the dog legs - I suspect the underneath is getting a little soft too.

 

[jsean]

That's not great. A good test would be jacking the car by the factory jack point, if it holds, the car is still solid. Notably, the home gamer using the car's jack or a suitable substitute will be lifting (nearly) half the weight of the car by the corner, as the RR suspension unloads while the LF compresses with the weight transfer. A shop with a lift, lifting by all four corners, will have a better time with a rust bucket as each corner only carries one quarter the weight.

On unibody FWD cars, typically the rear axle swingarm mounts to something just inboard of the rocker in this area. That would be my biggest concern, along with collateral damage to brake lines.

It would be prudent to vacuum the rust chips out of there, spray some fogging oil or fluid film inside, then cover the holes with aluminum flashing and self tapper screws as an absolute minimum, to keep road spray out and to slow down future damage.

Great suggestions - I’ll have him jack it up on the corners as you recommend and see if it holds. Or maybe I’ll suggest him it’s time to buy a new car and keep it for another 20 years?

If I recollect, right behind this is the solid beam that kinda holds all the rear suspension together.

I’ll also let him know about fluid film.

 

[Fifth87]

Pretty sure that would not be on the road long in NH, I think most inspection shops would fail for that. That being said, it looks like our inspection is going away next year so I'll be curious how long before that becomes the norm here.

I am guessing it won't take long. Vehicles that are already marginal, then add in those from MA with rust that either passed or failed their inspections and ended up here.

 

[Fifth87]

Great suggestions - I’ll have him jack it up on the corners as you recommend and see if it holds. Or maybe I’ll suggest him it’s time to buy a new car and keep it for another 20 years?

If I recollect, right behind this is the solid beam that kinda holds all the rear suspension together.

I’ll also let him know about fluid film.

Look closely at the suspension mounting points if you can, before your neighbor lifts it, just in case they are already weak so he isn't shocked if it collapses

 

[John105]

Ha! Old Accords around here disappeared a few years back. Shame really - rust took them and the old Nissans out.

This is a 2003 (or maybe ‘04) Pontiac Vibe.

I don't like the looks of what OP has shown, but it would be nice to have a shot backed up to put it into more context.

My 1998 Maxima SE purchased new was a very good car. But it started rusting in 2009! I was saying to myself wth the brochures bragged about corrosion resistance and had the unibody being dipped. 3 years after that, the lower radiator support collapsed. A body shop told it's not worth fixing ($1800 in 2012) just let the engine fall out. I kinda was thinking now that's a rude comment lol

I found some dudes in Parsipanny NJ who fixed it for $130 from the forum, and that took me the rest of the way. But I do question how it could be so poorly protected from rust like that. By the time I junked it (always forget what year but during the pandemic) a control arm snapped from rust.

 

[jsean]

Look closely at the suspension mounting points if you can, before your neighbor lifts it, just in case they are already weak so he isn't shocked if it collapses

Good point. I’ve only ever seen him use a floor jack to lift the rear up. So trying to jack up at a corner will be an interesting experience.

 

[jsean]

I don't like the looks of what OP has shown, but it would be nice to have a shot backed up to put it into more context.

My 1998 Maxima SE purchased new was a very good car. But it started rusting in 2009! I was saying to myself wth the brochures bragged about corrosion resistance and had the unibody being dipped. 3 years after that, the lower radiator support collapsed. A body shop told it's not worth fixing ($1800 in 2012) just let the engine fall out. I kinda was thinking now that's a rude comment lol

I found some dudes in Parsipanny NJ who fixed it for $130 from the forum, and that took me the rest of the way. But I do question how it could be so poorly protected from rust like that. By the time I junked it (always forget what year but during the pandemic) a control arm snapped from rust.

That era Maximas are awesome. My parents had a ‘96 that basically started rusting away, it was a really nice car. Seems like you got your money’s worth out of your Maxima.

I’ll try and get a picture of the area from farther away. The rest of the car actually seems decent from what I saw, I’m guessing the plastic cladding on these do a great job trapping the salt and causing the rust holes.

 

[TomYoung]

I don’t dig this this thread. Here is my understanding and approach to this: first, the car needs repair. Why is rust considered something that is optional, and not more like an alternator or even a motor mount. I disagree with the idea that jacking up the car successfully on all corners is some kind of proxy for structural integrity. Fluid Film slows rust progression, but that isn’t the answer to this problem. The fact on rust is that usually what you see is a small percentage of what you have.

Keeping these things on the road is unsafe to the occupants and to whoever is in the wrong place when the car fails. The repair, of course, is to cut back the rot to solid metal and weld in similar or thicker metal, then refinishing…for safety, not appearance.

If you look at some of my posts, you’ll see I have a considerable interest in thrift and penny-pinching, but not at the expense of safety.

This car is probably well beyond the point of economic repair. That it has rusted through at this point, even for a modest vehicle, points to a rough life and poor maintenance. This car is mostly likely at the end of the line.

 

[jsean]

I don’t dig this this thread. Here is my understanding and approach to this: first, the car needs repair. Why is rust considered something that is optional, and not more like an alternator or even a motor mount. I disagree with the idea that jacking up the car successfully on all corners is some kind of proxy for structural integrity. Fluid Film slows rust progression, but that isn’t the answer to this problem. The fact on rust is that usually what you see is a small percentage of what you have.

Keeping these things on the road is unsafe to the occupants and to whoever is in the wrong place when the car fails. The repair, of course, is to cut back the rot to solid metal and weld in similar or thicker metal, then refinishing…for safety, not appearance.

If you look at some of my posts, you’ll see I have a considerable interest in thrift and penny-pinching, but not at the expense of safety.

This car is probably well beyond the point of economic repair. That it has rusted through at this point, even for a modest vehicle, points to a rough life and poor maintenance. This car is mostly likely at the end of the line.

Rust isn’t optional, it’s just part of a car’s life here. That’s why you hardly see older vehicles around here because most of them succumb to rust. There are tons of 10-15 years cars driving around with gaping holes in their rockers and other body panels.

I’d hardly call the vehicle poorly maintained. This dude bought it new, has changed the oil every 5k miles, trans fluid every 30k miles, Toyota/GM parts only when possible, etc, etc. To your point, all the replacement engine mounts on this were Toyota replacements.
I got to crawl around underneath the car - there isn’t really rust at all. Heck, looks better than my Corolla does underneath.
Turns out him and his kid have been fluid filming it for years.

He found the rust when he took the plastic cladding that the Vibes have for the time since they got put on at the factory. How many people ever take plastic claddings off to see what’s behind? 230k miles of Midwest salt life. We only found another small spot of rust which is superficial at this point because I could scrape it off - again where the plastic cladding is, but by the front wheels. Our hypothesis is that over time salt just builds up under/behind that and starts to eat the metal.

We removed as many metal chunks as possible as recommended by @eljefino and soaked it fluid film. Put the plastic back on and voila, car looks great again.

We jacked the LR and RR corners at the pinch weld seams - held up just fine. Which was reassuring….

Owner of the vehicle is leaning towards getting rid of this and buying a Corolla Cross in the hopes it’ll last him 22-23 years like the Vibe did. He’ll be in his 90s by then

 

[TomYoung]

Rust isn’t optional, it’s just part of a car’s life here. That’s why you hardly see older vehicles around here because most of them succumb to rust. There are tons of 10-15 years cars driving around with gaping holes in their rockers and other body panels.

I’d hardly call the vehicle poorly maintained. This dude bought it new, has changed the oil every 5k miles, trans fluid every 30k miles, Toyota/GM parts only when possible, etc, etc. To your point, all the replacement engine mounts on this were Toyota replacements.
I got to crawl around underneath the car - there isn’t really rust at all. Heck, looks better than my Corolla does underneath.
Turns out him and his kid have been fluid filming it for years.

He found the rust when he took the plastic cladding that the Vibes have for the time since they got put on at the factory. How many people ever take plastic claddings off to see what’s behind? 230k miles of Midwest salt life. We only found another small spot of rust which is superficial at this point because I could scrape it off - again where the plastic cladding is, but by the front wheels. Our hypothesis is that over time salt just builds up under/behind that and starts to eat the metal.

We removed as many metal chunks as possible as recommended by @eljefino and soaked it fluid film. Put the plastic back on and voila, car looks great again.

We jacked the LR and RR corners at the pinch weld seams - held up just fine. Which was reassuring….

Owner of the vehicle is leaning towards getting rid of this and buying a Corolla Cross in the hopes it’ll last him 22-23 years like the Vibe did. He’ll be in his 90s by then

You don’t mention car washing, which was probably neglected.

 

[jsean]

You don’t mention car washing, which was probably neglected.

You didn’t read my post above. I don’t track my neighbors’ car washing habits. But assuming it was neglected and not washed like you said, this thing would’ve had rusted out just about everywhere and been dust by now.