RIP Naomi Judd.

And a day, no less, before the Judds are scheduled to be inducted into the Country Music Hall of Fame……
 
It is too bad it takes an event like this to go back and listen to their stuff. I don't believe they wrote most of the songs they performed but the simple honesty of the performances is what did it for me. RIP

 
Wow what a shocker. As a fellow Kentuckian I thought she was much younger than 76. The stars are falling apart this year.
 
I wasn't ever a listener of her music but I read about her and she was apparently extremely successful and raised successful daughters. This issue, this suicide, is so puzzling to me in her case given her accolades, success, and pending entry into music hall of fame.

I recently lost my best friend to suicide, and his was directly related to things you might expect - unbearable financial and family stress, work stress, feelings of inadequacy, etc. All these lead to hopelessness and depression and despair.

I don't understand how an ultra successful, famous, wealthy individual surrounded by similar in family and friends, feels "hopeless" or "depressed." Makes no sense. RIP nonetheless.
 
That's the sadness of this and other similar situations like it. I read that her depression was very tenacious and resistant to treatment with the available medications. Very sad for all that suffer from this illness
 
CharlesInCharge said:
I wasn't ever a listener of her music but I read about her and she was apparently extremely successful and raised successful daughters. This issue, this suicide, is so puzzling to me in her case given her accolades, success, and pending entry into music hall of fame.

I recently lost my best friend to suicide, and his was directly related to things you might expect - unbearable financial and family stress, work stress, feelings of inadequacy, etc. All these lead to hopelessness and depression and despair.

I don't understand how an ultra successful, famous, wealthy individual surrounded by similar in family and friends, feels "hopeless" or "depressed." Makes no sense. RIP nonetheless.
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The issue may be more inherent in a way that may resist treatment. A lot of people have been successful and the success is what causes it to spiral. Obviously Kurt Cobain, although with him drugs were an issue. For many it's a combination of physical ailments combined with mental illness.
 
CharlesInCharge said:
I wasn't ever a listener of her music but I read about her and she was apparently extremely successful and raised successful daughters. This issue, this suicide, is so puzzling to me in her case given her accolades, success, and pending entry into music hall of fame.

I recently lost my best friend to suicide, and his was directly related to things you might expect - unbearable financial and family stress, work stress, feelings of inadequacy, etc. All these lead to hopelessness and depression and despair.

I don't understand how an ultra successful, famous, wealthy individual surrounded by similar in family and friends, feels "hopeless" or "depressed." Makes no sense. RIP nonetheless.
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Success and money does not always equate to happiness or "cures" depression. Depression is not always understood or controllable. It's sad that some people can not over come it, even with help like she had. May she RIP.
 
ZeeOSix said:
Success and money does not always equate to happiness or "cures" depression. Depression is not always understood or controllable. It's sad that some people can not over come it, even with help like she had. May she RIP.
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y_p_w said:
The issue may be more inherent in a way that may resist treatment. A lot of people have been successful and the success is what causes it to spiral. Obviously Kurt Cobain, although with him drugs were an issue. For many it's a combination of physical ailments combined with mental illness.
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Then it seems the medical community and DSM should be able to alter diagnosis and treatment, create a new form of term and symptoms to address "too much success," type of ailment.

From Robin Williams (many speculate he did not commit suicide so maybe a bad example), to many other extraordinary famous people, suicides are bewildering. Surely illegal and unmonitored drug use and combinations play a role in altering the brain... I've heard this "depression" occurs when the "thrills" they are accustomed to erode. The "highs" of being able to command massive fanfare and audiences either erodes or loses luster. Or success wasn't as great as they had hoped it might be, like "buyers remorse" or "is that all there is?" attitudes... I don't know, I'm just spitballing but I just don't understand how folks like Cobaine and so many others self-delete after massive success, fame, wealth, and having anything any human might want.

In this case, at venerable age, with incredible success, fortune, wealth, having raised successful children, why would anyone self delete. I just don't get it. Go on a lavish trip, see someplace amazing, dedicate all your fortunes to helping others in some great humanitarian cause, and on and on. But to sit on bags of money wallowing in depression is so hard to comprehend since one isn't powerless to alter ones surroundings, unlike a poor powerless person facing insurmountable problems.
 
CharlesInCharge said:
In this case, at venerable age, with incredible success, fortune, wealth, having raised successful children, why would anyone self delete. I just don't get it. Go on a lavish trip, see someplace amazing, dedicate all your fortunes to helping others in some great humanitarian cause, and on and on. But to sit on bags of money wallowing in depression is so hard to comprehend since one isn't powerless to alter ones surroundings, unlike a poor powerless person facing insurmountable problems.
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That's because you really don't understand depression - how you think you would react or handle things in life is not how someone else will react or handle things. It doesn't matter how rich or successful someone is, severe depression will over-ride all of that and make it all vanish and not matter at all. It's a mental illness that is not fully understood, and how it effects every person is somewhat unique.
 
ZeeOSix said:
That's because you really don't understand depression - how you think you would react or handle things in life is not how someone else will react or handle things. It doesn't matter how rich or successful someone is, severe depression will over-ride all of that and make it all vanish and not matter at all. It's a mental illness that is not fully understood, and how it effects every person is somewhat unique.
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100% agree. I just watched an interview where she went over all the treatments she'd tried to get a handle on this. At the time of the interview she could only say it's an ongoing struggle. So many people want to hear that it was 'fixed' when in all actuality it's a life long struggle that cares little for your status, and what you do with your money, be it altruistic or selfish.
 
ZeeOSix said:
That's because you really don't understand depression - how you think you would react or handle things in life is not how someone else will react or handle things. It doesn't matter how rich or successful someone is, severe depression will over-ride all of that and make it all vanish and not matter at all. It's a mental illness that is not fully understood, and how it effects every person is somewhat unique.
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Let's not make this personal, mmkay.

I've endured hardships that would probably cause many people to self-delete. Don't lecture me on depression please. My best friend and military brother/veteran just self-deleted and we can point to some cause and effect. Causes included failed marriage, separation and pending divorce, living with his mom as a 50 year old man, probably wife spousal infidelity, overworked, professional stagnatation and frustration, personal failures, professional failures, the embarrassments of same and extreme economic hardships making him unable to effectively care for his family of 6. All diagnosed as depression, and heavily medicated combined with alcohol.... that is depression leading to suicide.

My comments are not an attack on her, but generally when rich/famous self-delete. I cannot accept - or have differences with a "depression" diagnosis for someone who completed life in the winners' circle having everything he/she touched turn to gold, winning every major event in life, having failed at practically nothing - in her case raising 2 wildly successful daughters as a single mom, a music career most would envy, and the wealth and fame envy of probably 99% of the world. None of that speaks to "depression" IMHO. There's no catalyst to cause such "depression." Get to the root of it. Part of me feels/believes too much success is bad, and these people get so isolated in their mansions and 1st world problems that the wrong caviar brand is depressing. They have run out of Evian and it's depressing to drink from the tap.... Or maybe tough love in such a case, such as "snap out of it," force someone to go live on the streets and serve homeless people for a month in soup kitchens, and maybe that's the fix.... Show them what real world problems look like, and they can regain a sense of happiness at their success.

If it's strictly a mental illness, why/how did she make it to 72? If it's late-onset, then what is the trigger? The medical community needs to adjust their diagnosis and treatment when folks who have no reason to be "depressed" have this illness.

Straight from the DSM5:

"What is Depression?
Depression, otherwise known as major depressive disorder or clinical depression, is a common and serious mood disorder. Those who suffer from depression experience persistent feelings of sadness and hopelessness and lose interest in activities they once enjoyed. Aside from the emotional problems caused by depression, individuals can also present with a physical symptom such as chronic pain or digestive issues. To be diagnosed with depression, symptoms must be present for at least two weeks.

Depression DSM-5 Diagnostic Criteria​

The DSM-5 outlines the following criterion to make a diagnosis of depression. The individual must be experiencing five or more symptoms during the same 2-week period and at least one of the symptoms should be either (1) depressed mood or (2) loss of interest or pleasure.
  1. Depressed mood most of the day, nearly every day.
  2. Markedly diminished interest or pleasure in all, or almost all, activities most of the day, nearly every day.
  3. Significant weight loss when not dieting or weight gain, or decrease or increase in appetite nearly every day.
  4. A slowing down of thought and a reduction of physical movement (observable by others, not merely subjective feelings of restlessness or being slowed down).
  5. Fatigue or loss of energy nearly every day.
  6. Feelings of worthlessness or excessive or inappropriate guilt nearly every day.
  7. Diminished ability to think or concentrate, or indecisiveness, nearly every day.
  8. Recurrent thoughts of death, recurrent suicidal ideation without a specific plan, or a suicide attempt or a specific plan for committing suicide.
To receive a diagnosis of depression, these symptoms must cause the individual clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning. The symptoms must also not be a result of substance abuse or another medical condition."
 
CharlesInCharge said:
From Robin Williams (many speculate he did not commit suicide so maybe a bad example),
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It took a year before it came out with what the root cause was: he had dementia with Dewey bodies. While that didn't kill him, he was clearly not himself anymore--and never would be. Link. IMO his case is sad but understandable.
 
supton said:
It took a year before it came out with what the root cause was: he had dementia with Dewey bodies. While that didn't kill him, he was clearly not himself anymore--and never would be. Link. IMO his case is sad but understandable.
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Thanks for clearing that up. I mis-spoke and meant to say "he did not have depression" rather than "suicide." Regardless, you've cleared it up. Thanks.
 
CharlesInCharge said:
Let's not make this personal, mmkay.

My comments are not an attack on her, but generally when rich/famous self-delete. I cannot accept - or have differences with a "depression" diagnosis for someone who completed life in the winners' circle having everything he/she touched turn to gold, winning every major event in life, having failed at practically nothing - in her case raising 2 wildly successful daughters as a single mom, a music career most would envy, and the wealth and fame envy of probably 99% of the world. None of that speaks to "depression" IMHO. There's no catalyst to cause such "depression." Get to the root of it. Part of me feels/believes too much success is bad, and these people get so isolated in their mansions and 1st world problems that the wrong caviar brand is depressing. They have run out of Evian and it's depressing to drink from the tap.... Or maybe tough love in such a case, such as "snap out of it," force someone to go live on the streets and serve homeless people for a month in soup kitchens, and maybe that's the fix.... Show them what real world problems look like, and they can regain a sense of happiness at their success.
Click to expand...
It's not "getting personal" ... it's simply stating a fact that you don't fully understand it all. If you really did fully understand it, you would realize that no matter how rich, famous or successful someone is, all of that can be over-ridden by extreme depression - at some point if the depression is not controlled, none of that will matter to them anymore.

CharlesInCharge said:
If it's strictly a mental illness, why/how did she make it to 72? If it's late-onset, then what is the trigger? The medical community needs to adjust their diagnosis and treatment when folks who have no reason to be "depressed" have this illness.
Click to expand...
Who defines what the "no reasons to be depressed" is? Again, you don't really understand this fully because if you did you would know some people have depression for really no (or minor) reasons as observed by people looking in from the outside. Severe depression can be caused simply by a chemical imbalance in the brain, not necessarily "triggered" by some life event. Life events can certainly impact/trigger the level of depression, but obviously those who suffer badly from it who have what others would consider a "wonderful carefree life" have something else going on. Someone with 10 billion dollars could have anything they wanted, or simply "fix" any problem in their life with money, but they may not be able to fix their depression even with help, as what seems to be the case with Naomi.
 
ZeeOSix said:
It's not "getting personal" ... it's simply stating a fact that you don't fully understand it all. If you really did fully understand it, you would realize that no matter how rich, famous or successful someone is, all of that can be over-ridden by extreme depression - at some point if the depression is not controlled, none of that will matter to them anymore.


Who defines what the "no reasons to be depressed" is? Again, you don't really understand this fully because if you did you would know some people have depression for really no (or minor) reasons as observed by people looking in from the outside. Severe depression can be caused simply by a chemical imbalance in the brain, not necessarily "triggered" by some life event. Life events can certainly impact/trigger the level of depression, but obviously those who suffer badly from it who have what others would consider a "wonderful carefree life" have something else going on. Someone with 10 billion dollars could have anything they wanted, or simply "fix" any problem in their life with money, but they may not be able to fix their depression even with help, as what seems to be the case with Naomi.
Click to expand...
Apparently it's doctors who don't really understand the illness, nor the cure. If they did we would not have the tens of thousands of annual suicides (most arguably due to depression), and the 60 thousand drug addict deaths annually from overdoses (large % of drug addicts started or stay on due to depression)...

So it sorta is personal attack on me, when you continually say that I don't understand, when nobody apparently really does understand the cause or cure. Saying the cause could be effectively anything, is really not particularly helpful.

Let's revisit the 8 symptoms and apply analysis:
  1. Depressed mood most of the day, nearly every day. [Rich/famous can alter their reality much easier than commoners. And altering environment can GREATLY impact/improve mood. Go on a trip, a vacation, do healthy things that stimulate mood...]
  2. Markedly diminished interest or pleasure in all, or almost all, activities most of the day, nearly every day. [Rich/famous can alter their reality much easier than commoners. And altering environment can GREATLY impact/improve mood. Go on a trip, a vacation, do healthy things that stimulate mood...]
  3. Significant weight loss when not dieting or weight gain, or decrease or increase in appetite nearly every day. [Rich people can easily eat heathier, hire professional like chefs, fitness trainers, etc.]
  4. A slowing down of thought and a reduction of physical movement (observable by others, not merely subjective feelings of restlessness or being slowed down). [Again, the wealthy can hire a coordinator to inject activity, events, exercise, travel, etc.]
  5. Fatigue or loss of energy nearly every day. [The wealthy can again easily hire folks to help them, stimulate them, better diet, high end supplements, etc. ]
  6. Feelings of worthlessness or excessive or inappropriate guilt nearly every day. [I can see how the wealthy could feel guilt, especially for success and wealth. The solution here, go be altruistic with your time/money. Hold charities, events, etc.]
  7. Diminished ability to think or concentrate, or indecisiveness, nearly every day.
  8. Recurrent thoughts of death, recurrent suicidal ideation without a specific plan, or a suicide attempt or a specific plan for committing suicide. [They can go visit burn units, hospital trauma units, visit veterans homes, see suicide sites, or do other type of "shock" to see what suffering really looks like, what death really looks like, etc.]
There "drug" solution is part of the big-pharma problem. For the truly hopeless, poor, destitute, victims, homeless, suicide is easier to understand. How is a rich/powerful/famous person hopeless and fatigued? They have the power to alter their environment drastically. If a rich/famous person were "depressed," I'd suggest they go find a stranger who is struggling financially, and give them XXX dollars to help them get level. Imagine the endorphins and positivity from this. Do that - every day. Go spend your fortune on helping commoners. Has that ever been tried? Go give a stranger a new car, or $1000, or whatever. I bet that could eliminate probably most of those 8 "symptoms" above.
 
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