Ridgeline to take a break
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Originally Posted By: glock19
Why is that so hard?
We generally live in a "bigger is better" society. You can already meet your criteria with some full-size trucks (or get very close to it), and I think the market recognizes that. I'd say that most people would trade a small amount of mileage for a much larger vehicle. They see more value in the size of bed or towing capacity, even if they never will use it, than an incremental increase in fuel economy, even if they will benefit from that at every gas pump.
I'm not saying that a large or small truck is good or bad for anyone. But as the old saw goes, "the market votes with its wallet," and small trucks are growing smaller in number in showrooms.
Why is that so hard?
We generally live in a "bigger is better" society. You can already meet your criteria with some full-size trucks (or get very close to it), and I think the market recognizes that. I'd say that most people would trade a small amount of mileage for a much larger vehicle. They see more value in the size of bed or towing capacity, even if they never will use it, than an incremental increase in fuel economy, even if they will benefit from that at every gas pump.
I'm not saying that a large or small truck is good or bad for anyone. But as the old saw goes, "the market votes with its wallet," and small trucks are growing smaller in number in showrooms.
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
We generally live in a "bigger is better" society. You can already meet your criteria with some full-size trucks (or get very close to it), and I think the market recognizes that. I'd say that most people would trade a small amount of mileage for a much larger vehicle. They see more value in the size of bed or towing capacity, even if they never will use it, than an incremental increase in fuel economy, even if they will benefit from that at every gas pump.
I'm not saying that a large or small truck is good or bad for anyone. But as the old saw goes, "the market votes with its wallet," and small trucks are growing smaller in number in showrooms.
I get that you can get pretty close to that criteria with a full sized truck. My problem though is that I'm not trying to compromise with a smaller truck, I truly don't want a vehicle that size. It makes it harder to park, harder to maneuver off-road, and I prefer the looks of a small truck.
We generally live in a "bigger is better" society. You can already meet your criteria with some full-size trucks (or get very close to it), and I think the market recognizes that. I'd say that most people would trade a small amount of mileage for a much larger vehicle. They see more value in the size of bed or towing capacity, even if they never will use it, than an incremental increase in fuel economy, even if they will benefit from that at every gas pump.
I'm not saying that a large or small truck is good or bad for anyone. But as the old saw goes, "the market votes with its wallet," and small trucks are growing smaller in number in showrooms.
I get that you can get pretty close to that criteria with a full sized truck. My problem though is that I'm not trying to compromise with a smaller truck, I truly don't want a vehicle that size. It makes it harder to park, harder to maneuver off-road, and I prefer the looks of a small truck.
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: glock19
Why is that so hard?
We generally live in a "bigger is better" society. You can already meet your criteria with some full-size trucks (or get very close to it), and I think the market recognizes that. I'd say that most people would trade a small amount of mileage for a much larger vehicle. They see more value in the size of bed or towing capacity, even if they never will use it, than an incremental increase in fuel economy, even if they will benefit from that at every gas pump.
I'm not saying that a large or small truck is good or bad for anyone. But as the old saw goes, "the market votes with its wallet," and small trucks are growing smaller in number in showrooms.
I'm with you, but a small truck is nearly as expensive to manufacture as a big truck. When I shopped, they had a few dreary Rangers left over for 18K. And I mean dreary. So I ended up with a 150 XL. 3K more, and it came standard with AT. Stil trying to get used to the size after a year and a half.
Originally Posted By: glock19
Why is that so hard?
We generally live in a "bigger is better" society. You can already meet your criteria with some full-size trucks (or get very close to it), and I think the market recognizes that. I'd say that most people would trade a small amount of mileage for a much larger vehicle. They see more value in the size of bed or towing capacity, even if they never will use it, than an incremental increase in fuel economy, even if they will benefit from that at every gas pump.
I'm not saying that a large or small truck is good or bad for anyone. But as the old saw goes, "the market votes with its wallet," and small trucks are growing smaller in number in showrooms.
I'm with you, but a small truck is nearly as expensive to manufacture as a big truck. When I shopped, they had a few dreary Rangers left over for 18K. And I mean dreary. So I ended up with a 150 XL. 3K more, and it came standard with AT. Stil trying to get used to the size after a year and a half.
Same amount of R&D goes into it. Maybe you save a pinch on machining costs, 6 cylinders vs 8 (and that gets blurred, what with Ecoboost now); but otherwise you only save about 1,000lb of weight, give or take. That 1,000lb more weight is more "stuff" that you have to buy, have to pay for that raw material + what it takes to make into a finished cost. IMO the minimal price difference is due to the added materials cost.
IMO the high overhead cost of R&D sets the base price; OEM's can tack on more expensive stuff, or sell loss-leaders to play with the cost. They can also of course charge more for desirable models. But in a bread and butter market (econoboxes, sedans, pickups) I'm guessing the price difference among the different base models is probably predicted by vehicle weight.
IMO the high overhead cost of R&D sets the base price; OEM's can tack on more expensive stuff, or sell loss-leaders to play with the cost. They can also of course charge more for desirable models. But in a bread and butter market (econoboxes, sedans, pickups) I'm guessing the price difference among the different base models is probably predicted by vehicle weight.
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: glock19
Why is that so hard?
We generally live in a "bigger is better" society. You can already meet your criteria with some full-size trucks (or get very close to it), and I think the market recognizes that. I'd say that most people would trade a small amount of mileage for a much larger vehicle. They see more value in the size of bed or towing capacity, even if they never will use it, than an incremental increase in fuel economy, even if they will benefit from that at every gas pump.
I'm not saying that a large or small truck is good or bad for anyone. But as the old saw goes, "the market votes with its wallet," and small trucks are growing smaller in number in showrooms.
Whoever sticks in the small truck market will be the winner. There's still a market (small) for small trucks. I suspect it'll be the Tacoma left in a few years.
Originally Posted By: glock19
Why is that so hard?
We generally live in a "bigger is better" society. You can already meet your criteria with some full-size trucks (or get very close to it), and I think the market recognizes that. I'd say that most people would trade a small amount of mileage for a much larger vehicle. They see more value in the size of bed or towing capacity, even if they never will use it, than an incremental increase in fuel economy, even if they will benefit from that at every gas pump.
I'm not saying that a large or small truck is good or bad for anyone. But as the old saw goes, "the market votes with its wallet," and small trucks are growing smaller in number in showrooms.
Whoever sticks in the small truck market will be the winner. There's still a market (small) for small trucks. I suspect it'll be the Tacoma left in a few years.
That would be interesting. They sure do hold their resale value, which is seems to be important, as few(er) really want to hold onto their vehicles for a long time. At the same time, I've read more than a few complaints about Tacoma's having soft springs that don't stand up to typical truck usage.
I will say: if Toyota wants to own this market, they could easily do so. No competition at the moment, and plenty of name recognition.
I will say: if Toyota wants to own this market, they could easily do so. No competition at the moment, and plenty of name recognition.
Originally Posted By: glock19
My problem though is that I'm not trying to compromise with a smaller truck, I truly don't want a vehicle that size. It makes it harder to park, harder to maneuver off-road, and I prefer the looks of a small truck.
I get you. I really do. You don't see any full-size trucks in my signature. I could have bought a mid- or full-size SUV for the price we paid for our CR-V, but I don't want a mid- or full-size SUV.
I've owned two trucks. A '95 Nissan hardbody and a '97 Dodge Dakota. Both were bought used with at least 170,000 miles at the time of purchase. I enjoyed them both, but the Nissan was the perfect size. When my wife became pregnant with our first child, we sold the Nissan for a Dodge Grand Caravan. I bought the Dodge from a friend and tinkered with it for a few years, and eventually sold it because I bought a 5x8 utility trailer that hauls more than the Dodge did and takes zero to insure or tax.
If I had to buy something with a bed today, it'd probably be something like a Ridgeline. Every full-frame truck I've driven has crude road dynamics compared with a car-based chassis. You get axle hop with solid rear axles. You get chassis reverberations with long rear frames with beds bolted on. The idea of a unit-body "truck" really appeals to me. I also really liked the Subaru Baja. Sadly, there aren't enough people like me who want a better driving truck. Many simply want the chrome and the exhaust tips and the parking lot bragging rights. And there's nothing wrong with that, for them. It just means that nobody makes something that I want.
At this stage, a Tacoma is the closest thing do it. I'd take mine in extended cab 2WD guise, please, with the I-4 and 5M.
My problem though is that I'm not trying to compromise with a smaller truck, I truly don't want a vehicle that size. It makes it harder to park, harder to maneuver off-road, and I prefer the looks of a small truck.
I get you. I really do. You don't see any full-size trucks in my signature. I could have bought a mid- or full-size SUV for the price we paid for our CR-V, but I don't want a mid- or full-size SUV.
I've owned two trucks. A '95 Nissan hardbody and a '97 Dodge Dakota. Both were bought used with at least 170,000 miles at the time of purchase. I enjoyed them both, but the Nissan was the perfect size. When my wife became pregnant with our first child, we sold the Nissan for a Dodge Grand Caravan. I bought the Dodge from a friend and tinkered with it for a few years, and eventually sold it because I bought a 5x8 utility trailer that hauls more than the Dodge did and takes zero to insure or tax.
If I had to buy something with a bed today, it'd probably be something like a Ridgeline. Every full-frame truck I've driven has crude road dynamics compared with a car-based chassis. You get axle hop with solid rear axles. You get chassis reverberations with long rear frames with beds bolted on. The idea of a unit-body "truck" really appeals to me. I also really liked the Subaru Baja. Sadly, there aren't enough people like me who want a better driving truck. Many simply want the chrome and the exhaust tips and the parking lot bragging rights. And there's nothing wrong with that, for them. It just means that nobody makes something that I want.
At this stage, a Tacoma is the closest thing do it. I'd take mine in extended cab 2WD guise, please, with the I-4 and 5M.
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
At this stage, a Tacoma is the closest thing do it. I'd take mine in extended cab 2WD guise, please, with the I-4 and 5M.
I agree about the Tacoma, it's really the only truck still around I would consider buying. However, even the Tacoma has become bloated to the point where it looks like the size of a late 90's F150. I would prefer the first gen body style with the second gen powertrain.
At this stage, a Tacoma is the closest thing do it. I'd take mine in extended cab 2WD guise, please, with the I-4 and 5M.
I agree about the Tacoma, it's really the only truck still around I would consider buying. However, even the Tacoma has become bloated to the point where it looks like the size of a late 90's F150. I would prefer the first gen body style with the second gen powertrain.
I personally would love a smaller truck with a stick shift and minimal baloney. All I really need is AC. And some towing abilities.
But there just ain't anyone home.
And it is obvious from reading this thread that many of us need to drive a modern late model pickup. They are extremely car-like and offer levels of quiet and refinement that many SUV's and a lot of cars would do well to match!
But there just ain't anyone home.
And it is obvious from reading this thread that many of us need to drive a modern late model pickup. They are extremely car-like and offer levels of quiet and refinement that many SUV's and a lot of cars would do well to match!
I really like the Taco. My only complaint is even the base models have electronic transfer cases.
I'd take an "Access Cab" 4x4, 4Cyl 5m ... or a regular cab. Base model.
That's all I would need in a truck. Has the towing capacity I need. Would be able to drag my Cherokee around with it.
I'd take an "Access Cab" 4x4, 4Cyl 5m ... or a regular cab. Base model.
That's all I would need in a truck. Has the towing capacity I need. Would be able to drag my Cherokee around with it.
Originally Posted By: JOD
considering how most trucks are actually used, a unibody truck probably makes sense...
I think I've seen like 3 Ridgelines in my life. Those things are like bigfoot or something. Not a big surprise it's going away for a while.
I have to agree with the first part. I'd love to have a truck but I'm not willing to spend that kind of money for what would be a very large car with a very large uncovered trunk.
They are fairly popular up here, have seen quite a few but less recently. I bet they would have sold better if Honda had got the fuel economy down, less truck but the same fuel doesn't make sense.
I think there are some people confusing what makes a truck with what they want a truck to be....
considering how most trucks are actually used, a unibody truck probably makes sense...
I think I've seen like 3 Ridgelines in my life. Those things are like bigfoot or something. Not a big surprise it's going away for a while.
I have to agree with the first part. I'd love to have a truck but I'm not willing to spend that kind of money for what would be a very large car with a very large uncovered trunk.
They are fairly popular up here, have seen quite a few but less recently. I bet they would have sold better if Honda had got the fuel economy down, less truck but the same fuel doesn't make sense.
I think there are some people confusing what makes a truck with what they want a truck to be....
By definition, the Ridgeline is indeed a truck. Regardless of the frame or design, a 'truck' is any motor vehicle designed to transport cargo. That's not me defining it by the way. In the U.S., to many folks, a 'truck' is generally acknowledged to have a different frame/body design than the Ridgeline. This is perhaps where so called 'real' truck enthusiasts prefer to cling and render a platform to sometimes mock the Ridgeline. That's fine. In regard to the mpg issues....how come not too many 'real' truck folks don't compare Fords V-6 F150 mpg's to the Ridgeline....with comparable 4x4 and door/seating configuration? The mpg's are almost the same. So then WHY would Ford sell a V-6 when the V-8 get's almost better mpg's?? I think THAT makes little sense to me.
Cheaper to produce a V6 and allows them to charge more of a premium for a V8
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: glock19
Why is that so hard?
We generally live in a "bigger is better" society. You can already meet your criteria with some full-size trucks (or get very close to it), and I think the market recognizes that. I'd say that most people would trade a small amount of mileage for a much larger vehicle. They see more value in the size of bed or towing capacity, even if they never will use it, than an incremental increase in fuel economy, even if they will benefit from that at every gas pump.
I'm not saying that a large or small truck is good or bad for anyone. But as the old saw goes, "the market votes with its wallet," and small trucks are growing smaller in number in showrooms.
Whoever sticks in the small truck market will be the winner. There's still a market (small) for small trucks. I suspect it'll be the Tacoma left in a few years.
I think it will be a one player segment sooner rather than later, with the Tacoma almost certainly being the last one standing. For some reason I highly doubt Nissan and GM will invest anything in small trucks in the US.
Toyota has found themselves a nice little chunk of the SUV market to chew on that nobody else is going for with the 4Runner. It is truly the last of its kind. The four door Wranger kind of competes with it, but is more Tonka-toy/Bro-truckish and doesn't have the grown up feel of the 4Runner. I suspect they will do the same with the Tacoma...keep the formula the same, hang on to the loyal followers, and simply move it from being a volume seller to a niche vehicle. I like that approach...seems like an honorable Japanese way to do things without the shame and sullying of old names that Ford does every time they get a bug up their [censored] to redesign or change their lineup.
I hope the small truck won't die off completely. For me personally, they are the ultimate DD. Highly functional and useful without being large enough to be a nuisance. Pretty comfortable too. My truck has better seats, a/c, and radio than many cars I have been in, so despite a dated looking interior, it's a comfortable place to be every day. I can deal with cranking the windows myself and no touchscreen.
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: glock19
Why is that so hard?
We generally live in a "bigger is better" society. You can already meet your criteria with some full-size trucks (or get very close to it), and I think the market recognizes that. I'd say that most people would trade a small amount of mileage for a much larger vehicle. They see more value in the size of bed or towing capacity, even if they never will use it, than an incremental increase in fuel economy, even if they will benefit from that at every gas pump.
I'm not saying that a large or small truck is good or bad for anyone. But as the old saw goes, "the market votes with its wallet," and small trucks are growing smaller in number in showrooms.
Whoever sticks in the small truck market will be the winner. There's still a market (small) for small trucks. I suspect it'll be the Tacoma left in a few years.
I think it will be a one player segment sooner rather than later, with the Tacoma almost certainly being the last one standing. For some reason I highly doubt Nissan and GM will invest anything in small trucks in the US.
Toyota has found themselves a nice little chunk of the SUV market to chew on that nobody else is going for with the 4Runner. It is truly the last of its kind. The four door Wranger kind of competes with it, but is more Tonka-toy/Bro-truckish and doesn't have the grown up feel of the 4Runner. I suspect they will do the same with the Tacoma...keep the formula the same, hang on to the loyal followers, and simply move it from being a volume seller to a niche vehicle. I like that approach...seems like an honorable Japanese way to do things without the shame and sullying of old names that Ford does every time they get a bug up their [censored] to redesign or change their lineup.
I hope the small truck won't die off completely. For me personally, they are the ultimate DD. Highly functional and useful without being large enough to be a nuisance. Pretty comfortable too. My truck has better seats, a/c, and radio than many cars I have been in, so despite a dated looking interior, it's a comfortable place to be every day. I can deal with cranking the windows myself and no touchscreen.
ls1mike
$50 Site Donor 2026
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/truck
Nothing discussed in this thread is a truck...
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pickup
Pickup Truck...Maybe
Nothing discussed in this thread is a truck...
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pickup
Pickup Truck...Maybe
ls1mike
$50 Site Donor 2026
Originally Posted By: whip
Tacomas are good trucks, but Ridgelines aren't even thou they have similar towing capacities? It's amazing how people only see the things they want to see.
Why is that? You are seeing it they way you want to. Not that I disagree, but we are all different.
Sometimes people agree and sometimes they don't
Tacomas are good trucks, but Ridgelines aren't even thou they have similar towing capacities? It's amazing how people only see the things they want to see.
Why is that? You are seeing it they way you want to. Not that I disagree, but we are all different.
Sometimes people agree and sometimes they don't
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
And it is obvious from reading this thread that many of us need to drive a modern late model pickup. They are extremely car-like and offer levels of quiet and refinement that many SUV's and a lot of cars would do well to match!
Though pickups have come a long way from where they started, they're still a far cry from a car chassis in terms of ride quality, handling, chassis dynamics, etc. I drive late model trucks every day. My favorite is the '08 Dodge we have at work. It's a quad cab long bed...very comfortable to drive, and with the longer wheelbase, it's the best-riding truck we have at work. Far from a car, though. We have numerous Fords and a few Chevrolets as well. They drive better than trucks used to. But they simply don't drive like cars.
And it is obvious from reading this thread that many of us need to drive a modern late model pickup. They are extremely car-like and offer levels of quiet and refinement that many SUV's and a lot of cars would do well to match!
Though pickups have come a long way from where they started, they're still a far cry from a car chassis in terms of ride quality, handling, chassis dynamics, etc. I drive late model trucks every day. My favorite is the '08 Dodge we have at work. It's a quad cab long bed...very comfortable to drive, and with the longer wheelbase, it's the best-riding truck we have at work. Far from a car, though. We have numerous Fords and a few Chevrolets as well. They drive better than trucks used to. But they simply don't drive like cars.
No, they don't. I have three vastly different driving vehicles, and I have to say, I drive my truck vastly different. My Jetta, which isn't known for its handling (skinny tires, old chassis) feels like a roller skate compared to my late model truck. The truck really wants some weight in it for good road isolation.
We won't even talk about parking...
We won't even talk about parking...
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