Revive Abused Battery

[viscous]

Have an old automotive battery that should be replaced soon. Before exchanging it, however, would like to see if it can be revived for continued (temporary) use in a garden tractor.

The battery has been neglected. Electrolyte level was very low (below top of plates; could only see liquid in one cell, even when tilting battery). Plates are hard to see through vent holes, because there appears to be a horizontal strip of metal above the plates, just below the vent holes. However, looking through the holes at an angle, can see the plates, which unfortunately look a bit shabby. Perhaps some loose flakes in there too.

The battery was unfortunately used in low-fill (exposed plate) condition. It eventually failed to hold a charge and would not restart the garden tractor. Jumpstarted garden tractor with 200 amp buzz box engine starter. Noticed some sparks flew off positive terminal when key was turned to crank engine. Operated tractor, checked battery, noticed it was hot. Not sure if battery heating is normal (due to hot engine proximity), as hadn't previously checked battery temperature after operation. It was suggested that heating may be due to internal short, but not sure there's any evidence of this.

Battery is currently discharged to 0.7 volts, and may have been frozen in low-fill condition. Added distilled water to 1/8 in. below bottom of slotted vent tubes. Now, how to attempt charging? Have 2/10/40 amp buzz box, separate automatic charger/maintainer, and DMM. Not sure it's even safe to try charging/using this battery, but assume distilled top-off improved safety. The battery should be replaced, but would be great if could squeeze out a few more months of service. Would appreciate any suggestions for charging process.

 

[joekingcorvette]

I am surprised an automotive would even fit in a garden tractor. Yes, charge it up very slowly and see what happens. The worst scenario is you will have to buy a new battery.

 

[billt460]

Buy both of these. Fill the battery to the split rings. Then plug it in until it goes from flashing green to solid green. And your battery will be reconditioned to as good of shape as it possibly can be. (The process may take 2 or 3 days).

Noco GENIUS1 6V/12V 1-Amp Smart Battery Charger

Noco GENIUS1 6V/12V 1-Amp Smart Battery Charger

www.batterysystems.net

https://www.autozone.com/batteries-starting-and-charging/battery-acid

 

[methusaleh]

Second vote for the Noco; I’ve seen what it can do firsthand.

 

[Rmay635703]

I use an antique 2amp dumb charger combined with an automatic generic battery charger that has a desulphator setting and hook both up, I’ve revived many batteries that won’t charge this way

 

[Silver]

Heh, I just discovered one of my deep cycle batteries was low below the top of the plates. It wasn't until after I charged it last that I realized this. It has been charging odd and has lost a lot of capacity. I knew it was not maintenance-free but I just never thought to check it.

I filled it then charged it at 3 amps with a smart charger (Schumacher Ship N Shore). It took it about 25 hours to reach 100% AFTER I had fully charged it when it was low. No idea what will happen now. It still only got to 12.6 volts, and dropped in an hour to 12.5.

Since I have a boat and a couple vehicles that don't get driven much, I was considering the PulseTech Redipulse but am now thinking the Batteryminder 2012 may be a better choice.

 

[billt460]

.......... It took it about 25 hours to reach 100% AFTER I had fully charged it when it was low.........

A lot of people don't realize this. I know I didn't until after I purchased a smart charger. An older battery "fully charged" on a conventional battery charger is not at 100% charge.

The "topping off" process can take several days, depending on how sulphated the battery is. This is because the smart chargers are only applying milliamps while accomplishing this.

On an older battery it can take as long as 3 days to achieve an honest 100% charge. The more you use it, the less time it will take to "top off" to a full 100% charge. This also helps in desulphating the battery, the more this process is applied. This is what they mean when they say the battery is being, "reconditioned".

 

[Silver]

A lot of people don't realize this. I know I didn't until after I purchased a smart charger. An older battery "fully charged" on a conventional battery charger is not at 100% charge.

The "topping off" process can take several days, depending on how sulphated the battery is. This is because the smart chargers are only applying milliamps while accomplishing this.

On an older battery it can take as long as 3 days to achieve an honest 100% charge. The more you use it, the less time it will take to "top off" to a full 100% charge. This also helps in desulphating the battery, the more this process is applied. This is what they mean when they say the battery is being, "reconditioned".

I figured that was what it was doing, my point was that process took a LONG time after adding water. I hope that was a sign of capacity increasing. Probably not.

To your point, these batteries go weeks and/or months without being used and sometimes I'll get a several day cycle on 3 amps.

But can this desulphate the battery? I've read where you need pulsing current to do that.

 

[billt460]

.....To your point, these batteries go weeks and/or months without being used and sometimes I'll get a several day cycle on 3 amps.

But can this desulphate the battery? I've read where you need pulsing current to do that.

If you use a "smart charger" like the Noco Genius 1, you can leave it on all the time when the unit is not in use. It will not overcharge the battery. It will bring it up to, and maintain it at a full 100% charge. Over time this helps to desulphate the battery, and allows it to operate more effectively.

The Noco Genius 1 only puts out 1 amp maximum. So it gives the battery a nice slow, soaking charge. Then when it switches from pulsing red to pulsing green, it is only putting out a few milliamps. Which is why the "topping off" process can take several days.

 

[Dave9]

0.7V battery! This is a waste of time. Spend the $30 to get a new battery, and if the budget is too tight to spare the $30, mow someone's yard for............................$30.

 

[Rmay635703]

0.7V battery! This is a waste of time. Spend the $30 to get a new battery, and if the budget is too tight to spare the $30, mow someone's yard for............................$30.

I recharged the recon battery in my Dodge with a short dozens of times from 0.0volts

Battery lasted quite a few years despite being flatlined repeatedly in the winter.

Only costs a nickel to run a dumb charger on it 8 hours

 

[Dave9]

I recharged the recon battery in my Dodge with a short dozens of times from 0.0volts

Battery lasted quite a few years despite being flatlined repeatedly in the winter.

Only costs a nickel to run a dumb charger on it 8 hours

On the contrary, recharging it dozens of times costs you more time than it takes to earn $30 for a new mower battery, and what a PITA it must be to have to keep stopping what you're trying to do and put it off for 8 hours while charging the battery again, even more so if a transportation vehicle instead of a mower, though of course your battery cost more than $30.

 

[Rmay635703]

On the contrary, recharging it dozens of times costs you more time than it takes to earn $30 for a new mower battery, and what a PITA it must be to have to keep stopping what you're trying to do and put it off for 8 hours while charging the battery again, even more so if a transportation vehicle instead of a mower, though of course your battery cost more than $30.

Considering I ran the charger when I slept it only cost me a minute or two

I didn’t sleep watching the charger

Because I was aware of the problem I would plug in the truck the night before and drive.

Never had an issue at my destination, was strictly a winter problem when the truck sat a week or so. Eventually ended up with a battery cutoff followed by a removal of the immobilizer and key fob transponder and short was then eliminated literally

Or I guess by your logic I could have a pallet of batteries in the garage and swap in a new one every week

 

[viscous]

Thanks everyone. I am planning to charge it at 2 amps (dumb charger) for, say, 24 hours. My concerns are as follows:

1. The battery got hot during operation. This may just have been normal from engine heat, or it could signify a problem, such as an internal short. (Would my DMM be able to detect an internal short using the continuity testing mode? Also, wouldn't an internal short have drained the battery to 0V, rather than it's current state of 0.7V?) If there is an internal problem, what could happen when I try to charge the battery? I don't want an explosion or fire.

2. The plates, or rather, what little I can see of them, look a bit shabby. Perhaps some bent or ragged edges, etc. There's a metal strip perpendicular to the plates between the top of the plates and the underside of the lid of the battery. (Perhaps this is what holds the plates in place?) I think there are a few metal flakes or shards (pieces of the plates?) lying on top of this strip. What if some of the plates are bent and touching? The battery may have frozen, which may explain the condition of the plates. However, if it did freeze, it was in a low-fill state at the time, so the electrolyte wasn't even covering the visible parts of the plates. I therefore don't understand why freezing would have caused the visible irregularities. I can't see much of the plates, and they don't appear that bad, actually, but they're not pristine. Again, I don't want an explosion or fire.

3. When I jump-started the garden tractor (back when the battery was holding a greater charge than its current state) sparks eminated from the connection between the jump-starter's positive cable and the battery's positive post when the key was turned to crank the engine. Is this normal, or does it indicate a problem with the battery? If so, what problem?

Thank you for your input and advice as to how best to charge this battery. As mentioned, I am planning to charge it at 2 amps (dumb charger) for, say, 24 hours, unless anyone has a better method.

 

[Rmay635703]

If the battery is shorted out you will know quite quickly as the charger will dump lots of amps and you will gain no voltage

If it’s a switching charger choose the 6v setting first and make sure it’s not drawing huge amps then switch to 12v

More than likely it will instantly jump to 12v and not accept any current, that is sulphation.

If it’s allowed to bake a while make sure it’s not boiling the electrolyte, if it is after a short time it’s a junk battery

It takes many hours of slow charging to know if it will come back, even after it’s “restored “ you might find it rests at a lower than expected voltage this can mean a cell is toast or that the battery is just very worn, it may still start a lawn tractor even at 11 volts but it could be hard on the magneto and it might boil electrolyte which is a safety issue.

Good Luck

 

[viscous]

If the battery is shorted out you will know quite quickly as the charger will dump lots of amps and you will gain no voltage

If it’s a switching charger choose the 6v setting first and make sure it’s not drawing huge amps then switch to 12v

More than likely it will instantly jump to 12v and not accept any current, that is sulphation.

If it’s allowed to bake a while make sure it’s not boiling the electrolyte, if it is after a short time it’s a junk battery

It takes many hours of slow charging to know if it will come back, even after it’s “restored “ you might find it rests at a lower than expected voltage this can mean a cell is toast or that the battery is just very worn, it may still start a lawn tractor even at 11 volts but it could be hard on the magneto and it might boil electrolyte which is a safety issue.

Good Luck

This is good info, thanks. Could you explain the magneto issue a bit more, please? Is it the starting or the running that would cause a low-voltage battery to harm the magneto, and how so? Also, yes, I wouldn't want to be riding around with a boiling battery.

 

[ripcord]

Here is a simplistic explanation that gets to the gist of your question, viscous...

It takes a certain amount of power (watts) to drive the magneto. Since watts = voltage X amps, if the voltage is low, then the amps part of the equation will be increased. Amperage is what generates heat when electricity travels through wires, so running with low voltage puts extra stress on windings, etc.

 

[Dave9]

Considering I ran the charger when I slept it only cost me a minute or two

I didn’t sleep watching the charger

Because I was aware of the problem I would plug in the truck the night before and drive.

Never had an issue at my destination, was strictly a winter problem when the truck sat a week or so. Eventually ended up with a battery cutoff followed by a removal of the immobilizer and key fob transponder and short was then eliminated literally

Or I guess by your logic I could have a pallet of batteries in the garage and swap in a new one every week

By my logic you fix the problems with a vehicle so it doesn't have this drain, then when your battery is worn out or drained to a permanently damaging level, you buy a new one. It's SOP for people that don't like to draw things out till they're a burden... and it is a burden, to have to plan ahead, remember to keep hooking up and later disconnecting a battery charger over and over. Batteries do not cost THAT much per year ownership, to jump through hoops to try to keep an old one going when it's still going to die anyway.

 

[Rmay635703]

By my logic you fix the problems with a vehicle so it doesn't have this drain, then when your battery is worn out or drained to a permanently damaging level, you buy a new one. It's SOP for everyone else.

Besides, a battery cutoff is a crappy solution, means your ECM loses stored parameters, is running rich till the drive cycle completes so you suffer worse fuel economy which matters now more than ever with gas prices getting ridiculous. Plus you were gambling that you wouldn't have a problem at your destination, a gamble that isn't hard to avoid.

I did but it took a very long time to figure out, Even with all fuses removed the drain would occur randomly in severe cold so finding the phantom draw was difficult

had to rip out the transponder and engine start and cut a wire. My key fob and immobilizer no longer worked but the drain was then over

Likewise If the alternator controller in my ecu dies my options will be to junk or bypass the problem, there are many issues that aren’t realistically repairable , especially on a $500 vehicle

 

[ripcord]

I did but it took a very long time to figure out, Even with all fuses removed the drain would occur randomly in severe cold so finding the phantom draw was difficult

had to rip out the transponder and engine start and cut a wire. My key fob and immobilizer no longer worked but the drain was then over

Likewise If the alternator controller in my ecu dies my options will be to junk or bypass the problem, there are many issues that aren’t realistically repairable , especially on a $500 vehicle

Later model Ford and GM vehicles will default to a moderate charging voltage of around 13.8 volts if the signal from the ECU is interupted. Probably other makes are similar but I'm not familiar with those.