Rethinking grades: 5W-20 vs 0W-20

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Originally Posted By: dave123
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
We recently purchased a 2015 PathFinder which specs 0W20, so I made up a batch of 5W20 HM and the engine runs smoother with better response.


You formulated your own oil from scratch?

Yes I’m betting he did.


He absolutely did, and used to do so for those on here and elsewhere on a small, even custom tailored for use individual order low quantity basis.
MTFs, and ATFs as well.
 
For the reasons stated by fdcg27, I'm buying 5W-20 synthetic for my 0W-20 car. Considering that I won't be starting at temperatures far below zero F, the only disadvantage, as far as I understand, is slightly higher fuel consumption while the oil is cool.
 
While I agree with most of this thread, I still think Mobil 1 0w20 AFE is a better product than Mobil 1 5w20.
 
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Originally Posted By: dave123
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
We recently purchased a 2015 PathFinder which specs 0W20, so I made up a batch of 5W20 HM and the engine runs smoother with better response.


You formulated your own oil from scratch?

Yes I’m betting he did.


Yupper; that is when you can tell an old BITOG'r from a yung-un. Those who know mola can do that, and those who don't.

+1 Lucky to have him. Made some great MTF
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
I guess I didn't express my point clearly enough in my original post.
Everyone knows about CAFE, other market specs as well as that the engine won't know the difference.
I simply wonder whether I'm missing something in a market where all newer engines seem to have the 0W-20 grade recommended for them.
Nothing wrong with the 0W-20 grade, but going with a 5W-20 looks to me like all upside.


I have just remained open to both in our Fusion Hybrid ~ I normally find 5w20 for less or at the year end sales …
It has MSS now … but used PG & M1 as well etc …
 
Originally Posted By: pbm
While I agree with most of this thread, I still think Mobil 1 0w20 AFE is a better product than Mobil 1 5w20.


Probably so … I started the new 5.3L on Mobil 1 EP 0w20 … but first run on the OLM ran out at 7k … so I have purchased some AFE for next change …
 
Originally Posted By: dave123
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Yupper; that is when you can tell an old BITOG'r from a yung-un. Those who know mola can do that, and those who don't.

+1 Lucky to have him. Made some great MTF


+2, x10,000!

Although I totally disagree with most of his worldviews, I am eternally grateful for his boundless tribological knowledge, and that he even bothers to share that with us on this site.
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Originally Posted By: PimTac
My understanding is that the cold flow difference between 0w and 5w is minuscule at best.


That's what I said years ago, when everyone was hyped on viscosity calculators and 0w cold flow behaviors.

It's not really a matter of the rating temperature, it's a matter of the viscosity at your ambient cold start temperature. I suspect that depending upon vi, some 5w- oils could be the same or thinner at a specific cold start temperature.

At the same time, 5w- was moved to from other more viscous variants because of cold start fuel economy. 0w- likely still may provide the same...
 
Originally Posted By: PimTac
My understanding is that the cold flow difference between 0w and 5w is minuscule at best.


On Havoline DSPRO the pour difference is one degree -41 vs -40.
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
We recently purchased a 2015 PathFinder which specs 0W20, so I made up a batch of 5W20 HM and the engine runs smoother with better response.


And here's the kicker:

In the PathFinder operating manual it says use 0W20, but it also says one can use a "mineral oil" 5W30 as well.

Nissan can't seem to make up their minds.
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I will most likely run a full synthetic 5W30 in the summer.

Every Nissan V6 engine in which I have had experience didn't like anything below 5W30 or summer oil consumption would go up, so we'll see.
 
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Well Molacule I have 220k miles on my Nissan Altima 3.5 VQ and it's had 5w30 the whole time. Still runs great, with very good power and hardly any consumption of oil at all. So, in summary I believe that your plan of action is a very good way to go based upon my experience with the 3.5 V6 VQ.
 
I have used 0w20 ever since I got my Honda in 2011 (first two runs with TGMO, the rest with M1 AFE) but in every single UOA the oil has thinned out, even on the ones without any fuel dilution at all. So I have decided to give PP 5w20 a try, as I figure it'll probably hold it's viscosity better.
 
I doubt any significant difference either way unless d1G2 is desired. A few 5w20 don't meet that spec. But this may also be a moot point since SN Plus is at our doorstep.

Let's allow the dust to settle after everyone reformulates to meet these specs, enough VOA with these newer blends to be posted, and then a clearer picture will unfold.
 
Originally Posted By: PimTac
My understanding is that the cold flow difference between 0w and 5w is minuscule at best.


Correct...at least until you get down to -30°C or so, when the 0w will be much thinner at startup.


I've seen a lot of comments about "positive displacement pump" but no data to back up the claims that it will deliver a thicker oil at low temps just as fast as a thinner oil. But what I have seen is evidence of oil pressure taking 35-40 seconds to build in cold temps, which was helped by a 5w or 0w oil being used. Personal experience also says that a 0w will start easier in very cold (-°F) temps than a 5w and a WHOLE lot easier than 10w. Yes, they'll still start with the heavier oils....
 
What I don't get is why 0W20 is thicker than 5W20 on the upper viscosity spectrum per pds? Shouldn't it be vise versa? QSUD 0W20 is 8.3 while QSUD 5W20 is 8.0. Same thing with PP.
 
I use 5w 20 EDGE on wife Escape EcoBoost per Ford specs D945 .Lower VII better TEOST & higher Flashpoint D93 + lower Noack. Thanks Mr Mola
 
You may not need the cold start properties, but is there any reason to specifically exclude 0W ?
Why not simply group the 0W and 5W together when comparing properties/merits and let other more important factors influence the choice of oil; the choice of 0W or 5W will be consequential.

I followed this process and ended up with 2 0w and 4 5w oils that meet the specs I was interested in and that was available to purchase, the final choice was down to price and ended up being a 0w.
 
My '15 Civic Si, wife's '15 Civic EX-L and our '12 Tundra 5.7L call require 0W-20 and I have been using 5W-30 since the warranty ran out with no issues.

I believe the 0W-20 specification was only applied to squeeze out a few 1/10's of a mpg of fuel economy.
 
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Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
There is no real "better cold flow"... If it flows, the positive displacement pump moves the same amount in both cases.

Since we all lived OK for decades on 10W-30 (even in OH), why even bother with the 5W ...


Nah, we didn't use that 10W-30 water in Ohio, or at least I didn't.
10W-40 was the minimum viscosity grade in my book, with 15W-50 being ideal for hot summer conditions.
Many Japanese and Euro car owners used 20W-50 and they ran their cars over the winters as well. If you garaged your car overnight, it never felt the below zero lows that we saw outdoors, so this worked.
Didn't this kill fuel economy?
Well, if you consider 40 mpg average on my commute with our old Civic Wagons to have been killed, then it did.
 
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