Results of wrong connection of jumper cables?

Joined
Feb 10, 2015
Messages
378
Location
Greece
What can happen in the following scenario of wrong connection and especially can there be any effects that are not obvious immediately?

The positive terminal of the working battery was connected to the negative terminal of the dead battery and the negative terminal of the dead battery was connected to the chassis of the car with the dead battery. The engine of the car with the working battery was running. The connection lasted for a few seconds, lets say about 5, but it was enough to make the cables smoke at the point the wires are attached to the clamps.

After that I tested the battery (of the car with the working one) and its voltage during cranking was over 11 V . Furthermore its indicator shows that it's in a good charging state.
I also tested the alternator with almost full load (only the rear window defroster was off) during idle and I got over 13 V. It was over 14 V with no load, again at idle engine speed.
No check engine light or any other dashboard warning lights are on.
 
Last edited:
Don't think there's any long-term issues. You got lucky.... Many cars are fused to protect against this as it happens commonly enough and without the fusing on modern cars, major components like the ECU often get fried.

The voltages you're reading make sense too. I say move along.
 
Don't think there's any long-term issues. You got lucky.... Many cars are fused to protect against this as it happens commonly enough and without the fusing on modern cars, major components like the ECU often get fried.

The voltages you're reading make sense too. I say move along.

I was thinking if damages that would require more sophisticated tests could occur, at the time of the incident of course.

By the way, as the path of low resistance passes through the the jumper cables and the working battery (the dead battery is out of the loop) would the current flow through other components or would just flow only through these cables?

Edit: By the way no fuses were blown, because everything is functioning, so there weren't the fuses that pevented any damage from happening.
 
Last edited:
I think a NOCO jump pack would not allow that. Good reason for jump packs vs actually jumping vehicles.
Yes, they have short circuit protection as far as I know. I'm not sure if it's totally OK for lithium batteries to be stored in cars if they are left long hours under the sun and reach very high temperatures though.
 
Last edited:
In the following oversimplified circuit diagram that represents the situation wouldn't the high current run through the loop of BAT1 and the Ground? Would a high current flow through any of the resistors that represent all the electrical devices of each car or the alternators?
 

Attachments

  • Jump start.png
    Jump start.png
    69 KB · Views: 25
Last edited:
Inquirer, the three connections you posted would not complete a circuit and no current would flow, and the cables would not of smoked. There must of been another connection, like the negative of the good vehicle ( from the frame, or engine block, or some metal on the engine such as the alternator mount bracket, or the negative of the battery of the good vehicle ) to the negative of the bad vehicle such as ( the frame, or engine block, or some metal on the engine such as the alternator mount bracket, or the negative of the battery of the bad vehicle ), in order to complete the circuit so current would flow and cause the cables to smoke.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the old days I would of included the possible negative connection of touching the bumpers together, but now days they are almost always plastic or plastic coated.

BTW, Back in the day, when cars had metal bumpers that were bolted to metal frames, I once jump started a bad battery when no one had any jumper cables, by touching the metal front bumper of my car to the metal front bumper of the bad car, and then holding the L type lug wrenches from both cars touching together the screw driver blade ends ( the large flat blade ends for removing hub-caps ) and having the lug ends each touching a positive so the two L lug wrenches made the + connections ( with me touching the positive lug wrenches, aware that 12 Volts would not hurt me but I did not touch the vehicles because there frames were negative, and I had on dry boots ), and the owner of the bad car cranked his car while I held the lug wrenches this way. It worked and the bad car started. There is one for MacGyver.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back to the topic at hand, Inquirer, assuming you did make some means of connecting the negatives to complete the circuit ( because the cables did smoke, so the current did flow ), what you described is placing a very heavy load on the good vehicle. Fortunately for the owner of the dead vehicle, what you described did not actually apply a complete reversal of polarity to the dead vehicle and therefore did NOT damage any thing in the dead vehicle. However, you placed a very heavy load on the battery and the alternator of the good vehicle, ( basically a short with the current limited by the very low resistance of the cables and there connections, and the ability of the good battery and alternator to supply the current ).

WHAT YOU HAVE TO NOW WATCH OUT FOR IS THE POSIBALITY THAT YOU DAMAGED ONE OF THE HIGH CURRENT DIODES IN THE OUTPUT CIRCUIT OF THE ALTERNATOR OF THE GOOD VEHICLE THAT HAD THE ENGINE RUNNING WHEN YOU PLACED THAT LARGE LOAD ON IT.

WHAT CAN SOMETIMES HAPPEN WHEN YOU ABUSE THE OUTPUT DIODES OF AN ANTERNATOR THE WAY YOU DID IS THAT ONE OR MORE OF THE DIODES WILL BECOME ELECTRICALLY LEAKY IN THE REVERSE DIRECTION AND THIS WILL PLACE AN ELECTRIC LOAD ON THE BATTERY THAT WILL SLOWLY DRAIN THE BATTERY WHEN THE VEHICLE IS NOT RUNNING. USUALLY THIS ONLY SHOW UP WHEN YOU LET THE VEHICLE SIT FOR 2 OR MORE DAYS WITHOUT EVER RUNNING IT. BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE USE VEHICLES DAILY, IF IT IS A LONG TIME BEFORE THE GOOD VEHICLE IS LEFT TO SIT FOR 2 OR MORE DAYS, IT CAN BE A LONG TIME BEFORE THIS SHOW UP. HOWEVER IF YOU DID DAMAGE AN OUTPUT DIODE THIS WAY, THE FIRST TIME THE GOOD VEHICLE IS LEFT TO SIT FOR 2 OR MORE DAYS WITHOUT BEING RAN, IF THE BATTERY APPEARS DEAD, IT IS MORE THAN LIKLEY THAT THE ALTERNATOR IS DRAING THE BATTERY AND SLOWLY DISCHARGING IT BECAUSE OF A BAD LEAKY OUTPUT DIODE.

Most alternators in modern vehicles now days use pulse with modulation of the output and are not as prone to damaging the output diodes as the older alternators of the 1970's and 1980's that used a simple linear voltage regulator would have. So the chances are your alternator is probably OK. But the only ways to find out for sure is to have someone do a leakage test to see what the output of the good alternators reverse leakage is when its positive output is connected to the positive of the battery and of course its frame ground is connected to the battery ground, or just let the vehicle sit for 2 or more days and see if the battery gets discharged and the vehicle will not start.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back in the day, before modern alternators with pulse with modulation, it was common to damage one or more of the output diodes of an alternator by jump starting a dead vehicle, with the engine running in the good vehicle, and the alternator of the good vehicle could sometimes put out too much current when the bad vehicle cranked, and damage one or more of the output diodes of the good vehicles alternator, and the bad diode(s) would become electrically leaky and draw some current when the good vehicle was shut off every time after that had happened. Often it would be a long time such as a month or more before the good vehicle was not use 2 or more days in a row, and only then would the good vehicle not start. Because of the long delay, it was sometimes hard to make the connection to how the output diodes were damaged.

It is still not a good idea to run the engine of the good vehicle when jump-starting a bad vehicle, because even with the polarity connected properly, there is a slight chance of the output of the good alternator putting out too much current and damaging one or more output diodes.

You should not run the engine of the good car when you jump start a bad car. With the engine of the good car not running there is no chance of damaging the alternator of the good car.
 
Last edited:
BTW, if you connected the negative of the good vehicle to the positive of the bad vehicle, then you MIGHT of applied reverse polarity to the dead vehicle and if the dead battery did not hold the applied reverse voltage from getting high enough in the reverse direction, you would have damaged some of the electronics of the dead vehicle. If this did happen the dead vehicle would not be able to run properly and most likely would not even start, even if a new battery was put in it.
 
Also, as I have posted on another thread, you should always have at least a gallon of clean water handy to dump on your face if one of the batteries explodes and sprays acid in the air and it gets on your face. And never let anyone who does not have to be near the batteries stand anywhere near the batteries when jump-starting a vehicle. This is actually so important that it would be wise to not jump-start a vehicle if the gallon of clean water was not near by.

The last connection should always be to the ground of the bad vehicle, and not at the battery, but on the frame or engine block or a piece of metal mounted to the engine such as the alternator mount bracket ) so as to be as far away from the battery as possible so if making the connection causes a spark, the spark is not near enough to the battery to cause any hydrogen gas that the battery may be putting off to explode. If there is hydrogen gas present and it gets a spark it can get into the battery and cause the battery to explode. The only exception to this would be to make the last connection at the ground of the good vehicle ( and as far from the battery of the good vehicle as possible. )

Even with the polarity connected properly and the last negative connection made far from any battery, there is a very small but real chance one of the batteries will explode. The chance is small, probably something like 1 in 10,000 but it does happen. And the acid flying through the air will get anyone near by. When they explode it is very quick and it is all over everything is less than a second. This is why a gallon of clean water to dump on your face is such a good idea.

I was across the street in a house watching someone jump start there truck and the battey exploded. He ran into his house and got under the shower. I saw the explosion and the acid flying up and over everything. The next day he said he had the polarity correct, and he was an electronic engineering student.
 
Last edited:
And when disconnecting, always disconnect a ground that is far from any battery first, so that if it does cause a spark it does not cause a battery to explode.
 
@JimPghPA

The connections happened as I described in my first post:
The positive terminal of the working battery was connected to the negative terminal of the dead battery and the negative terminal of the dead battery was connected to the chassis of the car with the dead battery. The engine of the car with the working battery was running. The connection lasted for a few seconds, lets say about 5, but it was enough to make the cables smoke at the point the wires are attached to the clamps.

There was definitely no contact between the cars and yes there were both cars with plastic bumpers anyway, so contact would make no difference.

Wouldn't that cause a current in the loop I have drawn in this new attachment (with the red and blue lines indicating the jumper wires), as the arrows show through BAT1? (I'm not sure if the ground symbol should be there as I'm not sure if a car is really grounded through its tires.)

The jumper wires are made of 50 mm² welding cable and they got hot, so yes a very high current passed through them. But my question is did it pass though any other components or only through the square loop I show on the diagram?

Is there a fuse between the alternator and the battery that would have blown?

The car with the dead battery after connecting the cables in the right way immediately started running after cranking the engine, with no apparent problems.

Furthermore there are definitely no blown fuses in the car with the good battery. All electric systems work fine. Wouldn't any of the fuses had blown if a current that high passed through any of them? Plus I ran that few tests with a multi-meter I mentioned in my first post and they all seem OK.

Finally, no smoke or any smell was produced by either cars, not from any of their wires, not from any electric components.

It is still not a good idea to run the engine of the good vehicle when jump-starting a bad vehicle, because even with the polarity connected properly, there is a slight chance of the output of the good alternator putting out too much current and damaging one or more output diodes.

The manual of my car which is a relative modern car, about 10 years old, states otherwise. It suggests to turn on the engine of the car with good battery and wait a few minutes. I guess probably as measure for the dead battery to obtain some charge and be able to start the car again a couple of times if needed.
 

Attachments

  • Current.png
    Current.png
    74.8 KB · Views: 14
@JimPghPA

You are right I have a mistake in the description in my first post which I copy pasted above. Here is the right one:

The positive terminal of the working battery was connected to the negative terminal of the dead battery and the negative terminal of the working battery was connected to the chassis of the car with the dead battery.

I guess now the 2 schematics make sense. I would edit my previous posts so everyone who reads them would find out what really happened, but I guess the edit option is not available after some time has passed.
 
You full fielded the alternator of the running car. But this happens a lot anyway, if you just start the car, idle it, and run the heat, rear window defroster, and lights.

The diodes should take the full output of the alternator. They will when new, anyway. If age was sneaking up on them this stunt could have done them in.

Once the alternator has given all it's got, the battery starts contributing.

You were probably saved by the lousy connection of the alligator clips. These would have been the point of highest resistance-- especially if the body ground was corroded or painted.

You can listen for an alternator whine on the AM radio if you want to be paranoid.
 
You full fielded the alternator of the running car. But this happens a lot anyway, if you just start the car, idle it, and run the heat, rear window defroster, and lights.

The diodes should take the full output of the alternator. They will when new, anyway. If age was sneaking up on them this stunt could have done them in.

Once the alternator has given all it's got, the battery starts contributing.

You were probably saved by the lousy connection of the alligator clips. These would have been the point of highest resistance-- especially if the body ground was corroded or painted.

You can listen for an alternator whine on the AM radio if you want to be paranoid.

The alternator is rated 85 A. The battery can delivery much more. Isn't there a fuse between the battery and the alternator?
 
The alternator is rated 85 A. The battery can delivery much more. Isn't there a fuse between the battery and the alternator?
If there is, it's above 85 amps. And the short was between the battery terminals. The alternator and its fuse weren't involved, beyond giving their all. System voltage would have dipped dramatically, but then recovered.

If you were to worry about anything, it'd be your battery IMO.
 
What can happen in the following scenario of wrong connection and especially can there be any effects that are not obvious immediately?

The positive terminal of the working battery was connected to the negative terminal of the dead battery and the negative terminal of the dead battery was connected to the chassis of the car with the dead battery. The engine of the car with the working battery was running. The connection lasted for a few seconds, lets say about 5, but it was enough to make the cables smoke at the point the wires are attached to the clamps.

After that I tested the battery (of the car with the working one) and its voltage during cranking was over 11 V . Furthermore its indicator shows that it's in a good charging state.
I also tested the alternator with almost full load (only the rear window defroster was off) during idle and I got over 13 V. It was over 14 V with no load, again at idle engine speed.
No check engine light or any other dashboard warning lights are on.
Hi OP, hope you're well.

I know it's an old topic, but almost the same thing happened to me today (same connections, only difference is I did not have the engine on the good car running ). I disconnected everything after a few seconds upon noticing a little shower of sparks upon attempting to clamp the jumper cable to the dead car chassis.

Cable heads were hot, but that's the only thing I noticed. Both batteries were fine (in appearance at least) and I did not identified any issue on either cars (good car turned on and bad car too after I corrected the connections).

I was wondering if I should be worried for any long term effect... Did you notice anything in your case in the long run?
(I don't have the possibility to check voltage etc. for now).

Thanks !
 
Hi OP, hope you're well.

I know it's an old topic, but almost the same thing happened to me today (same connections, only difference is I did not have the engine on the good car running ). I disconnected everything after a few seconds upon noticing a little shower of sparks upon attempting to clamp the jumper cable to the dead car chassis.

Cable heads were hot, but that's the only thing I noticed. Both batteries were fine (in appearance at least) and I did not identified any issue on either cars (good car turned on and bad car too after I corrected the connections).

I was wondering if I should be worried for any long term effect... Did you notice anything in your case in the long run?
(I don't have the possibility to check voltage etc. for now).

Thanks !
Sorry for the delayed answer. I'm not checking the forums regularly.

Everything's completely fine. Hopefully, the same thing will be true for your car too.
 
The alternator is rated 85 A. The battery can delivery much more. Isn't there a fuse between the battery and the alternator?
What car is using a 85Ah+ battery today? MB and other diesels used a group 93 that were 91Ah but its not common today in most gasoline engine cars.
 
What car is using a 85Ah+ battery today? MB and other diesels used a group 93 that were 91Ah but its not common today in most gasoline engine cars.

It's a 1.5L Lancer with the 4A91 engine. Is an 85Ah alternator an underpowered one?
 
Had a team member do this right before close one evening, there should be a very large 80 amp, give or take fuse in the large panel, with the relays under the hood. BTW, some gas powered trucks used 2 batteries, for what its worth. Oops he connected the new battery backwards, sorry.
 
Back
Top