Restoration Almost Complete. Which Oil?

[67Customs]

Hi All.

The restoration of my 1967 Mustang is nearing completion and I'm getting near firing up the motor for the first time and I'm trying to decide on which oil to initially use.

Things to point out:

The motor is a 302 from a 1985 Mustang. It was pulled from a 1992 Mustang about 5 years ago and has sat in the garage the way it was pulled out since then. It has 351W heads, bored, mild cam, high volume oil pump and a 8.5 qt oil pan. Mostly stock otherwise. The motor was rebuilt for the 1992 and had about 20K miles on it before I got it. Ran fine with no leaks before.

I plan on driving it once a week and it will be garage kept and garage started, so temps outside shouldn't matter much.

Not only do I need to know what oil I should use up front, but I also need to know how often I should change it initially. Should I do 500 miles, change, 500 miles, change then wait until 3K, change, etc...

Please offer me your knowledge.

Thanks.

 

[addyguy]

Nice build.

Find a 10w30 HDEO - Rotella 10w30, for example.

Since it is a 'mild' build on a 1992 motor, you could probably get away with any off the shelf 5w30 or 10w30, but I'd use the HDEO for a bit of extra protection.

Two 500-mile drains sound like a decent place to start, but in any event, I'd keep the 'regular' drains short, as this car will most like see lots of short trips.

 

[Hemi426]

If it doesn't have cats I would try Brad Penn Penn Grade 1 10w30. It's got a great base stock and plenty of zinc and phos. for an aftermarket cam. Brad Penn also makes a nice 30 wt. break-in oil for newly rebuilt high performance engines.It's what I used to break in the cam on my street/strip 440. I use the straight 40 wt. in the engine now.

 

[lexus114]

MEOW.....

 

[40Deluxe]

That vintage of 302 would be a roller cam engine so the zinc is not the issue on that, good quality oil 5w30 break cam in for twenty minutes,change oil,run for a few hundred,change and run for normal interval like 3,000 miles.

 

[mechtech2]

It has 20,000 miles on it. What break in?

Sitting is no good for engines. 5 years?

I'd yank the plugs and soak the pistons [2-3 tablespoons] with MMO or even engine oil and let it sit for a day before even trying to turn it over. Then I'd turn it over by hand slowly.
If this seems good, change the oil and filter and crank it over by the starter with no spark plugs . Blow out some of the MMO and build oil pressure.

What kind of fuel system? A carb will be dried out by now. Floats stick and passages and jets get build up which makes them smaller. A careful rebuild may be necessary.

 

[Jim 5]

Originally Posted By: 40Deluxe
That vintage of 302 would be a roller cam engine so the zinc is not the issue on that, good quality oil 5w30 break cam in for twenty minutes,change oil,run for a few hundred,change and run for normal interval like 3,000 miles.


Not to mention that your cam lube and assembly lube is loaded typically with zinc and moly. I'd go with a good 5w30 as well.

 

[67Customs]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
Nice build.

Find a 10w30 HDEO - Rotella 10w30, for example.

Since it is a 'mild' build on a 1992 motor, you could probably get away with any off the shelf 5w30 or 10w30, but I'd use the HDEO for a bit of extra protection.

Two 500-mile drains sound like a decent place to start, but in any event, I'd keep the 'regular' drains short, as this car will most like see lots of short trips.

Thanks for your advice. I'll take a look at the different HDEOs and see which I like.

I was definitely planning on doing shorter OCIs, like every 3K, since I wont be driving it as much or as far as my daily driver.

Originally Posted By: Hemi426
If it doesn't have cats I would try Brad Penn Penn Grade 1 10w30. It's got a great base stock and plenty of zinc and phos. for an aftermarket cam. Brad Penn also makes a nice 30 wt. break-in oil for newly rebuilt high performance engines.It's what I used to break in the cam on my street/strip 440. I use the straight 40 wt. in the engine now.
Definitely doesn't have cats.

But yeah, it has already been broken in. I am just getting everything going again. Although, the same principles may apply. I don't know. Never had an engine sit that long and start it again. I know there is probably going to be a little more wear than usual for the first few hundred miles.

Originally Posted By: 40Deluxe
That vintage of 302 would be a roller cam engine so the zinc is not the issue on that, good quality oil 5w30 break cam in for twenty minutes,change oil,run for a few hundred,change and run for normal interval like 3,000 miles.
Again, I don't think it is a cam break in issue, but I have been told by someone else to change the oil out pretty soon after restarting it. I didn't know if that meant a short amount of time or so many miles, but either way, it makes since. I figure it will just be good insurance to do it very soon after the first start to get any trash out that might be in there.

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
It has 20,000 miles on it. What break in?

Sitting is no good for engines. 5 years?

I'd yank the plugs and soak the pistons [2-3 tablespoons] with MMO or even engine oil and let it sit for a day before even trying to turn it over. Then I'd turn it over by hand slowly.
If this seems good, change the oil and filter and crank it over by the starter with no spark plugs . Blow out some of the MMO and build oil pressure.

What kind of fuel system? A carb will be dried out by now. Floats stick and passages and jets get build up which makes
them smaller. A careful rebuild may be necessary.

Yeah, 5 years. And I am completely aware that sitting isn't good for them. But, letting it sit wasn't by choice. Life just dealt me a few years that I couldn't work on my car. I'm having to deal with what I have now.

Funny that you mention it, but that was definitely in my plans to soak it with MMO prior to turning or starting. Thanks for the further advice. I think it will be fine, but we will see.

As far as the carb goes, I have a brand new one to put on. The carb from the 1992 in gone.

Originally Posted By: Jim 5
Originally Posted By: 40Deluxe
That vintage of 302 would be a roller cam engine so the zinc is not the issue on that, good quality oil 5w30 break cam in for twenty minutes,change oil,run for a few hundred,change and run for normal interval like 3,000 miles.


Not to mention that your cam lube and assembly lube is loaded typically with zinc and moly. I'd go with a good 5w30 as well.
Would you go with the 10w30 for the initial "rebreak-in" start and then switch to a 5w30. My plan was to run a 5w30 if the engine seemed to run well without burning or leaking oil. I'm not sure what to run for the couple of initial starts. I thought a thinker oil might be better, but I don't know.



Thanks for the advice so far everyone. Please keep it coming if anyone has anything else to add.

 

[OVERKILL]

Just run a decent 5w30. They are tough little engines and this one isn't going to be too hi-po from the sounds of things.

 

[Jim 5]

Quote:
Would you go with the 10w30 for the initial "rebreak-in" start and then switch to a 5w30. My plan was to run a 5w30 if the engine seemed to run well without burning or leaking oil. I'm not sure what to run for the couple of initial starts. I thought a thinker oil might be better, but I don't know.



Thanks for the advice so far everyone. Please keep it coming if anyone has anything else to add.


My theory on this is that in a brand new engine the bearing clearances are smaller while the engine is breaking in and wear surfaces are mating themselves to one another. That "mating" that is occurring at break-in is what causes all the junk in the oil as high spots (however microscopic) are worn away through break in. This is also why it is popular to change the oil early and often during break in.

If break-in is the time when bearing clearances (in my theory) are the smallest in the life of an engine (in the theory, these bearing surface/wear surface clearances enlarge over time with wear and mating), then this is the most appropriate time for a lower viscosity oil - which is theoretically more effective in getting into smaller clearances due to lower viscosity.

Like I say, it's a theory of mine and some other engine builders I've spoken to and read online. I am not an engineer or scientist, but I have torn down and built a number of small block fords, seen what wear does to bearing surfaces and used plastigauge on worn bearings as well as new replacement bearings to measure the clearances. When you do that, you can see how much the clearances enlarge compared to new spec just by looking at how much the plastigauge spreads or doesn't spread when the surfaces are bolted down to spec. You can also feel the difference in an old engine compared to an un-fired rebuild when you try to rotate the crankshaft on the engine stand with a breaker bar - even if the heads are off and you take away the added load of the valve-springs.

In any case, if you buy into that theory as I do, then that backs up my recommendation of a 5w30 and then moving to a 10w30 or higher viscosity oil later if necessary.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[mechtech2]

Jim 5- Bearings don't break in. They never touch [they'd better not!]

 

[Jim 5]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Jim 5- Bearings don't break in. They never touch [they'd better not!]


Hmm. I won't disagree with you, but just out of interest, isn't break in the first instance of bearing wear? Aren't bearings always wearing through the life of an engine? How does the grey part of a babbit journal bearing wear down in an engine then?

Plus you've got the lifters moving up and down and rotating in their bores and if they're hydraulic, you've got stuff shimmying around inside those too. Aren't all of those things, plus surfaces like the cam knocking down microscopic high points and mating themselves to one another causing the engine to "loosen up"? Engine break in surely isn't just limited to the piston rings in their bores is it?

Again, just trying to learn here.