Reliability in the first 3 years - Europe

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Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: Chris B.
Honda and Toyota are far superior to all of those brands. This chart is about as honest as Hillary Clinton is.
"What does it matter now, anyway"?

"What difference does it make!??"

But seriously how is VW so high on this list?
Swap VW for Honda or Hyundai and this list looks a lot more realistic
 
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Only surprise relative to my prejudices are VW and Honda, but I suppose the newer Honda's these days are going to be horribly high tech.
 
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Originally Posted By: Brybo86
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: Chris B.
Honda and Toyota are far superior to all of those brands. This chart is about as honest as Hillary Clinton is.
"What does it matter now, anyway"?

"What difference does it make!??"

But seriously how is VW so high on this list?
Swap VW for Honda or Hyundai and this list looks a lot more realistic


Reliability does differ from country to country because what VW and Honda offer here differs what they offer in Europe.
The fact is that there are many cool cars, trucks and motorcycles available elsewhere with different engines and transmissions we can't get here.
Do you think the the 2002-2005 British built Honda Civic SI hatch that was available here in the U.S. had the same reliability as the previous Ohio built Civic SI coupe?
 
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Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Originally Posted By: pbm
Originally Posted By: Kamele0N
Interesting that KIA and Hyundai are so far apart.....although technically the same.....


Exactly my thought....It's also interesting that Skoda and VW are so far apart when Skoda uses VW mechanicals. Could it be that Czechs assemble the product better?

PS: I rented a Skoda Octavia a few years ago and it was an awesome vehicle.


less standard equipment on skodas? and they don't offer the big vehicles, say phaeton/A8 or Q7/Q5/(whatever the audi eq is).


My thoughts were Skoda models get proven technology. You don't get the newest of what VAG is offering, so the bugs are likely worked out by the time much of the technology makes it to their vehicles.

And, as you suggest, probably less equipment installed to fail.
 
Honda and Toyota used to be far superior up until about 10 years ago after that they too were engineered to break. Before i sold my engine shop we saw lots of them coming in at much lower mileage thn ever before.. Hyundai and Kia are really the same company and their engines are also the same i dont know why they are so far apart and for what reasons..This is also in the U.K.
 
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Originally Posted By: pbm
Originally Posted By: Kamele0N
Interesting that KIA and Hyundai are so far apart.....although technically the same.....


Exactly my thought....It's also interesting that Skoda and VW are so far apart when Skoda uses VW mechanicals. Could it be that Czechs assemble the product better?

PS: I rented a Skoda Octavia a few years ago and it was an awesome vehicle.


less standard equipment on skodas? and they don't offer the big vehicles, say phaeton/A8 or Q7/Q5/(whatever the audi eq is).


My thoughts were Skoda models get proven technology. You don't get the newest of what VAG is offering, so the bugs are likely worked out by the time much of the technology makes it to their vehicles.

And, as you suggest, probably less equipment installed to fail.
It surprised me to see Skoda at the top of the list - Skodas were imported here for a short time, c. 1985. I don't know how many were sold in Canada, but within a very few years there were none on the road.

They seemed to fare worse than the other eastern-bloc cars we saw here - Lada (Fait-based from the Soviet Union) and Dacia (Renault-based from Romania).

C. '86, there was also an Innocenti dealership in town - these were Italian microcars. I saw a survivor a few years ago.

In general European cars (with the exception of the German & Scandanavian brands) have had short lives in western Canada - Renault, Fiat, and British Leyland all withdrew from this market, and the Detroit Three did not have a lot of luck with importing cars from their European subsidiaries. Who remembers Ford's Cortina, Chrysler's Simca, or GM's Vauxhalls?)

I'm hoping Fiat can make a go of it here, but am skeptical. The lack of a spare tire in combination with our potholed roads rules out a Fiat 500 for me.
 
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Originally Posted By: pbm
Originally Posted By: Kamele0N
Interesting that KIA and Hyundai are so far apart.....although technically the same.....


Exactly my thought....It's also interesting that Skoda and VW are so far apart when Skoda uses VW mechanicals. Could it be that Czechs assemble the product better?

PS: I rented a Skoda Octavia a few years ago and it was an awesome vehicle.


less standard equipment on skodas? and they don't offer the big vehicles, say phaeton/A8 or Q7/Q5/(whatever the audi eq is).


My thoughts were Skoda models get proven technology. You don't get the newest of what VAG is offering, so the bugs are likely worked out by the time much of the technology makes it to their vehicles.

And, as you suggest, probably less equipment installed to fail.

That's it exactly. Skoda is late with new technology, and relies on last year one - obviously nothing wrong with that. After all that is what made Toyota in NA so trustworthy.
But I always take this kind of surveys with a grain of salt. Few years back a Toyota Aygo city car faired better than its twins from French PSA group. Same car. Maybe dealers have some influence on these surveys?
 
A Skoda representative told in a conference that as the general public expects them to be with quality problems ("lower spec than Audi, memories of 70s and 80s Skodas etc.") their quality programs and processes are very thorough and vigorous.
 
Originally Posted By: Miller88
The fiat 500 doesn't have a spare tire?

Here in NY with our horrible roads that's kind of a necessity.
A year or so ago I stopped in my work truck to help an older lady whose 500 had a flat. (We're allowed, in fact encouraged, to help out - good PR for the company I guess.)

Anyway, she said the car had come equipped w/ a can of sealant/tire inflater but no spare. As the sidewall was blown out, there was no way the sealant would have worked. She had called the dealership and they were sending a tow truck. You'd think they would send a tech with a new tire on a wheel to get her going right away.

Anyway, I hold my nose if the car can't be equipped with a full-size spare. No spare at all crosses the line for me.
 
Originally Posted By: Number_35
Originally Posted By: Miller88
The fiat 500 doesn't have a spare tire?

Here in NY with our horrible roads that's kind of a necessity.
A year or so ago I stopped in my work truck to help an older lady whose 500 had a flat. (We're allowed, in fact encouraged, to help out - good PR for the company I guess.)

Anyway, she said the car had come equipped w/ a can of sealant/tire inflater but no spare. As the sidewall was blown out, there was no way the sealant would have worked. She had called the dealership and they were sending a tow truck. You'd think they would send a tech with a new tire on a wheel to get her going right away.

Anyway, I hold my nose if the car can't be equipped with a full-size spare. No spare at all crosses the line for me.

Just found this link:

http://publicaffairsresources.aaa.biz/wp...-Spare-Tire.pdf

It looks like a spare is available on the 500 as an optional extra.
 
Originally Posted By: shDK
Originally Posted By: Kamele0N
Originally Posted By: pbm
Originally Posted By: Kamele0N
Interesting that KIA and Hyundai are so far apart.....although technically the same.....


Exactly my thought....It's also interesting that Skoda and VW are so far apart when Skoda uses VW mechanicals. Could it be that Czechs assemble the product better?

PS: I rented a Skoda Octavia a few years ago and it was an awesome vehicle.


Well in VAG concern ( Skoda VW Audi Seat) there is a little different story

Audi get best parts and latest technology and is therefore premium car/mark.....while VW Škoda etc gets class 2 mechanical parts....they are technically the same but lets say....clutch for Audi has better materials in it then the same clutch for Skoda


I really doubt you are right on that one. If the VAG group makes an order for a clutch or a flywheel. At let's say LUK or Sachs. Those will be made in the same quality, and will be shipped to the same engine plant where engines for all VAG cars are made. Also if you buy a vw OEM part here in Denmark. It is often stamped with all the VAG manufacturers name.

It is not that i like VAG cars myself. I personally think it is overpriced garbage sold to people who buys the " German quality" sales [censored]. I would chose any Japanese or even French engine any day.


My pal is working in rent-a-car company......they have many Audi A3s and VW G7s in their fleet...

.....with notorious 1.6 TDI engine....wich has problems with injectors...

....all Audis are working flawlessly....while almost all VW G7s with that engine were repaired under warranty (they replaced their injectors)

SAME engine SAME P/N for the injector!
 
Originally Posted By: Chris B.
Honda and Toyota are far superior to all of those brands. This chart is about as honest as Hillary Clinton is.



If it was based on the 2006-7 production years, I would believe it. Toyota tried to surpass GM globally in terms of volume, and its president came out later acknowledging they had serious QC issues because of the desire to be "#1".
 
Originally Posted By: Number_35
Originally Posted By: Number_35
Originally Posted By: Miller88
The fiat 500 doesn't have a spare tire?

Here in NY with our horrible roads that's kind of a necessity.
A year or so ago I stopped in my work truck to help an older lady whose 500 had a flat. (We're allowed, in fact encouraged, to help out - good PR for the company I guess.)

Anyway, she said the car had come equipped w/ a can of sealant/tire inflater but no spare. As the sidewall was blown out, there was no way the sealant would have worked. She had called the dealership and they were sending a tow truck. You'd think they would send a tech with a new tire on a wheel to get her going right away.

Anyway, I hold my nose if the car can't be equipped with a full-size spare. No spare at all crosses the line for me.

Just found this link:

http://publicaffairsresources.aaa.biz/wp...-Spare-Tire.pdf

It looks like a spare is available on the 500 as an optional extra.


And those use an oddball bolt pattern so can't really pick up a wheel for it at the junkyard


Hmm. Apparently the donut was option on my Focus. Didn't realize that one
 
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