Refurb Laptop. Which One?

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Originally Posted By: KrisZ
In my experience, computers that have no problems running Vista will actually perform better with win 7 or newer windows versions.


That is the experience of most others as well.

If OP's issues are confirmed to be software, upgrading software is the solution. An easy, non-committal way to test for this is to use a live Linux distro. That will give you a good sense of how responsive and stable the machine *can* be, unburdened of Vista. If the hardware appears to be in good shape, OP can then elect to move to Win10 (or 7); or OP may by then have been seduced by the ease, security and stability of Linux. :^)
 
Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
Post cannot be deleted one minute after sending the original post.
Why even have that DELETE button Helen? Remove it please.


Good point! I can confirm that it is not possible to delete your own post, making the button pointless. This could be enabled either in the forum or database software; or the button can be removed. Here's hoping one of those things happens.
 
I prefer Dell/HP/Lenovo business grade computers in that order. i5 or i7 processor. But yeah, they're all about the same. The nice thing about the big 3 is you can go online and download service manuals and drivers for machines going back 15 years...
 
Originally Posted By: Oro_O
Originally Posted By: 3800Series
No one company is arguably better then the other they are all made with the same components.


Dude, you have no clue.

With your reasoning, we could assume that since Bosch is a prevalent engine control electronics manufacturer, all cars with Bosch control systems are the same. Utter nonsense.

Because Akebono is OE for most all Japanese car's brakes. Tokio Radiator makes a lot of their pans and radiators and most bi-metallic systems and switches. The whole domestic industry there has coalesced around Toyota's pHOAT cooling chemistry. So I guess there's just no difference in Japanese cars?

It's how you put it all together, your skill and talent as engineers and manufacturers. And software matters.

There are clear differences in quality in computers, and it's nor really "arguable." It's demonstrable.

And Dell still sucks no matter how you who try to stack the deck...
wink.gif



Fine, show me two different laptops at the same exact price point. Tell me which one is more reliable and I will show you exactly where they dropped quality on that laptop to buy more "reliable" components elsewhere. They all have the same exact suppliers. It does has not and will not make any arguable difference.

You can buy a PC from Acer or Dell. Take the side panel off and you will find a Gigabyte motherboard, Intel or AMD CPU, a nameless power supply, a Samsung hard drive, and probably some Mushkin ram.

The idea that each laptop of custom build and engineered specifically for anything other then the $1,500+ market is laughable. Components are all uniform and meant to be as compatible as possible in a given form factor. They are made around the target price point.

People tend to forget PC's are disposable by nature. They are made to last 3-4 years that's it. If they fail earlier then 9 times out of 10 it's due to owners neglect. They are preassembled in the same factor's.

If the part's are all identical at a given price point they are build in the same place as well you can't argue the difference is due to parts quality or more advanced manufacturer's assembly lines.

You compare the differences not the similarities and they all have very few difference's because they are limited to a very small list of suppliers for any given component everyone uses the same suppliers.

If you don't get 30 years out of a desktop/laptop you can't blame the company when the fault is your overly inflated expectations.

As for cars they have far more variables then computer parts. You're comparing apples to oranges.
 
Agreed. There's a lot of contract manufacturing going on in consumer electronics. Foxconn is a major one in the laptop market. Dell, Toshiba, Lenovo, et al all have similar failure rates after a few years.

OP: flip a coin and go with the one with the better warranty
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Here is my 2c. If your current laptop is running Vista, then IMO it is probably a decent machine. OP did not say what kind of problems he's having. If they're not hardware related, I think this laptop has some life left in it, especially if it has 2-4 gb of ram installed. A clean install of either win 7 or win 10 should bring this machine back to life.

In my experience, computers that have no problems running Vista will actually perform better with win 7 or newer windows versions.



It really is a decent machine. Between family and myself, it was my birthday present in 2009.
It has a duo core processor, 3 GB of RAM and is plenty fast enough.
However, battery is about gone, lower case is not in the greatest of shape, keyboard can be kind of wonky at times. The reason that I have had it this long is that my sister bought one just like it after I bought mine, and in her usual form it didn't last very long under her expert tutelage. Therefore, I have used parts off the second to keep mine going.
I have thought about buying an ebay battery for it, and getting a copy of Win7 from somewhere and trudging on, but figured that I may as well take the opportunity with the gift cards and upgrade to a newer machine. Even if I get a new one, I will hang on to this one and relegate it to basement use.
If I could buy this exact machine new again, I would. It has been that good of a machine.
 
The lenovo T series are business laptops. They hold together much better than bottom barrel $300 bestbuy stuff.

Mine for example has a magnesium frame in it.

A speedy i5, 8gb ram and windows 10 with no bloatware for $245 is pretty good.

extremely simple to image it over to a ssd as well.
 
Originally Posted By: Rand
The lenovo T series are business laptops. They hold together much better than bottom barrel $300 bestbuy stuff.

Mine for example has a magnesium frame in it.

A speedy i5, 8gb ram and windows 10 with no bloatware for $245 is pretty good.

extremely simple to image it over to a ssd as well.


Looked at one locally this morning. It is a nice unit.
However, the one they had was no where near the unit you linked to.
Just tried to order the one you mentioned.
Their on-line site would not take my Visa gift cards.
Have e-mailed them in regards to completing the purchase, but have not heard anything yet.
Oh, well. We'll see what happens.
 
Originally Posted By: 3800Series
Originally Posted By: Oro_O
Originally Posted By: 3800Series
No one company is arguably better then the other they are all made with the same components.


Dude, you have no clue.

With your reasoning, we could assume that since Bosch is a prevalent engine control electronics manufacturer, all cars with Bosch control systems are the same. Utter nonsense.

Because Akebono is OE for most all Japanese car's brakes. Tokio Radiator makes a lot of their pans and radiators and most bi-metallic systems and switches. The whole domestic industry there has coalesced around Toyota's pHOAT cooling chemistry. So I guess there's just no difference in Japanese cars?

It's how you put it all together, your skill and talent as engineers and manufacturers. And software matters.

There are clear differences in quality in computers, and it's nor really "arguable." It's demonstrable.

And Dell still sucks no matter how you who try to stack the deck...
wink.gif



Fine, show me two different laptops at the same exact price point. Tell me which one is more reliable and I will show you exactly where they dropped quality on that laptop to buy more "reliable" components elsewhere.


I think most "manufacturers" spec out different orders from Foxconn or some of the other small handful of factories. Some will spec more robust parts, like a motherboard with thicker substrate or a larger case for better heat dissipation while skimping on graphics horsepower; while others spec out low quality build materials and add in crammed-to-the-brim low quality features to impress consumers. These two hypothetical examples might we'll hit market at the same price point, and we as consumers make our choices.
 
Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Originally Posted By: 3800Series
Originally Posted By: Oro_O
Originally Posted By: 3800Series
No one company is arguably better then the other they are all made with the same components.


Dude, you have no clue.

With your reasoning, we could assume that since Bosch is a prevalent engine control electronics manufacturer, all cars with Bosch control systems are the same. Utter nonsense.

Because Akebono is OE for most all Japanese car's brakes. Tokio Radiator makes a lot of their pans and radiators and most bi-metallic systems and switches. The whole domestic industry there has coalesced around Toyota's pHOAT cooling chemistry. So I guess there's just no difference in Japanese cars?

It's how you put it all together, your skill and talent as engineers and manufacturers. And software matters.

There are clear differences in quality in computers, and it's nor really "arguable." It's demonstrable.

And Dell still sucks no matter how you who try to stack the deck...
wink.gif



Fine, show me two different laptops at the same exact price point. Tell me which one is more reliable and I will show you exactly where they dropped quality on that laptop to buy more "reliable" components elsewhere.


I think most "manufacturers" spec out different orders from Foxconn or some of the other small handful of factories. Some will spec more robust parts, like a motherboard with thicker substrate or a larger case for better heat dissipation while skimping on graphics horsepower; while others spec out low quality build materials and add in crammed-to-the-brim low quality features to impress consumers. These two hypothetical examples might we'll hit market at the same price point, and we as consumers make our choices.


I can't disagree with that there are many companies out there I've never heard of so I should have worded it better more of brand name companies. Over the last few years I've really been impressed with a lot of the manufacturers build quality. More often then not the PCB is far thicker then necessary. The VRM is often overkill on some desktops.

I've seen more then a few motherboards with what I would consider a generous amount of MOSFETs/chokes. Chipset wise have become standard. North Bridge stays fairly cool compared to years ago. South Bridge never had a serious problem in the past 15 years.

Sata 3 ports offer plenty of bandwidth (granted we have reached the limit for them) but unless your a business building a server SSD's work well enough even they you have the option for PCIE m.2's or just throw some drives in raid 0.

ATX 22 pin and 4/8 pin CPU offer more then enough power on the 12v rail (granted it also heavily depends on the power supply). Intel an both AMD have come a long way to place all the vitality components on the silicon die so even a less then excellent motherboard will not effect the processors performance.

Drives have come a long way and are far more reliable and tend to give early warning when they start to fail (SSD's do a great job at this and hard drives do decent but warning can be hit or miss).

The only real on going problem is cooling and battery life. Everyone wants something small, cooler, and they want better battery life. It's more of a pick 2 type of problem. Battery technology will improve tho and both CPU and GPU architecture has improved significantly over the past decade to not only become more energy efficient but also run cooler.

Most problems that happen today with laptops are people leaving them in their car while not at work or not properly venting them (setting them on a bed or their lap) choking off the air flow and just dropping them.

For desktops it's smokers or people with animals who do not properly clean and cause the systems to clog up since they are not properly maintained. I've seen a few people shove a desktop into a cabinet built into their computer desk. Opening the door only for a split second to turn it on and turn if off.

I imagine some engineer losing sleep at night due to nightmares caused from pressure to develop a passively cooled system.

(Sorry for the chain quote spam I always seem to break the quoting feature when I try to edit it myself).
 
You can put a 3-4 year warranty on a dell enterprise refurb laptop from their outlet website.

I buy all my dells from dell outlet and have never had a problem with them.
 
Originally Posted By: 3800Series

Fine, show me two different laptops at the same exact price point. Tell me which one is more reliable and I will show you exactly where they dropped quality on that laptop to buy more "reliable" components elsewhere. They all have the same exact suppliers. It does has not and will not make any arguable difference.


That is a laughable argument at best.

You are forgetting that at the level of HP, Apple, Dell, Lenovo, etc they can go to WD, Seagate, HGST, etc and demand a specific hard drive or SSD for just them. It will have different specs for the market they are going for.

Same with video cards - Dell was famous for using "the same chips" but with different BIOSes on them resulting in different performance.

They all have history with custom case designs and [censored] things like the ATX specs.

Let's not forget case composition as well. There is a difference in the build between the $200 and $1500 computer.

So yeah they may all have the same manufacturer for the parts within that manufacturer there may be many parts that are built to a price point. Or even a case that flexes just a little bit and over time will put stress on the various components and cause issues where the better built one will not.

Then you have design screw ups. Case in point, the POS Dell "business class" machine I use for work has a DVD drive whose door is part of the side case and has no lip on the bottom to protect it. So after 2 years of picking it up the cover broke off. Compare to the previous HP Business machine that lasted 4 years without it because the bottom case covered the DVD drive. The HP was also built like a tank. The Dell, like a toy.

Been in this business a long time and can show you many ways where the various machines are built totally different even though they have the "same parts"!

It's the reason smart businesses don't buy the $200 specials and go with "business class" machines.
 
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Experienced good and bad with Dell, HP and Lenovo business laptops, varies between model and ranges available. Most of them are good generally good business laptops, with the odd poor model.
Just need to do a bit of research to make sure you don't get a Dell with a dogdy power connector, Lenovo with fragile USB port or HP with poor trackpad buttons for example.
 
Originally Posted By: Rand
The lenovo T series are business laptops. They hold together much better than bottom barrel $300 bestbuy stuff.

Mine for example has a magnesium frame in it.

A speedy i5, 8gb ram and windows 10 with no bloatware for $245 is pretty good.

extremely simple to image it over to a ssd as well.



Just ordered this machine 5 minutes ago.
Found the same machine locally in a refurb for $320 with tax and a 90 day warranty.
Decided to save the money, plus take advantage of the one year warranty.
Even though buying computers on line makes me somewhat nervous, the price couldn't be beat.
Used PayPal for the purchase plus my AMEX card for warranty benefits.
Can someone explain the concept of an ssd to me , please?
 
Originally Posted By: Tdbo
Can someone explain the concept of an ssd to me , please?


In one word "Fast". I am still using Dual Core computers. Makes a night and day difference in speed. Samsung and the included software has been the best I have used.
 
Originally Posted By: Tdbo

Can someone explain the concept of an ssd to me , please?


Faster, non-mechanical storage. SSD, Solid State Drive. No moving parts. Data is stored on chip, not magnetically.
However 5-6x more expensive than an HDD which means most drives are sub 1TB in the consumer world.

FWIW, my desktop at home has a 512GB SSD for the OS and applications. I have 3TB of spinning HDDs for my data.
 
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