Reduced Consumption with 5w30

[77GrandPrix]

My daughter's car is '99 Dodge Neon with 155,000 miles on it. I have been using 10w30 Valvoline dino it and it normally consumes a quart every 800 miles or so, even on a fresh change. At the last change I used 5w30 Valvoline dino because that was all I had on hand. I checked the oil today and at 1000 miles it has used a little less than 1/2 quart. Any thoughts on why switching to 5w30 would cut consumption in half? Is it that a better base oil is used in 5w30?

 

[friendly_jacek]

Different driving style?
I bet 15W40 HDEO would fix the problem.

 

[JAYCEE]

5w30 can have higher operating viscosity. I've never heard of it reducing consumption.

Interesting though.

 

[427Z06]

quote:

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Originally posted by 77GrandPrix:
Is it that a better base oil is used in 5w30?

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It's possible. The 5w30 meets Ford's FORD WSS-M2C929-A spec, whereas the Valvoline 10w30 doesn't list it. Ford's WSS-M2C153-G specification for 10w30 is a GF-2 level spec.

 

[427Z06]

Reference letter dated January 6, 2004 from Independent Lubricant Manufacturers Association (ILMA) titled Proposed ILSAC GF-4 Specification:

"The issue of an SAE 10W-30 oil meeting ILSAC GF-4 that is formulated with a significant amount of Group I base oil arose during the discussion of the comments on the November 4 draft. It was the technical consensus of the ILSAC/Oil Committee that it would be possible to make a 10W-30 ILSAC GF-4 oil with a significant amount of Group I base oil."

So...it could be the case that people who are buying supposed loss leader dino 10w30, thinking they're getting a more robust basestock versus 5w30, are actually getting just the opposite.

 

[Vuser]

I agree. the only time I'd ever bought 1030 was when my old Malibu called for it, and My mom's 99 Buick. Now her 04 Buick, my 00 cavalier and my wife's 03 impala all take 5w30 and even the same oil filter. Generous Motors finally got something right. Now if they only had the same amount of power.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

You probably unnoticeably ovefilled your crankcase by a half-quart last oil change.

 

[Ray H]

I find it very hard to believe an established mainstream brand such as Valvoline would, A> still be using Group I base oil and B> would be considered a "loss leader" blender. That "significant" Group I base oil content reference was directed to the bottom-feeder independent oil blenders such as Warren-Coastal and its other less than sterling counterparts catering to providing extortionist pricing motor oil of questionable breeding to regional gas 'n go convenience outlets.

 

[Drew99GT]

Ford's WSS M2C929-A spec is for the 5w-30 grade only and doesn't even pertain to 10w-30.

So Valvoline 10w-30 is up to 89 % Group I but the 5w-30 is up to 87 % group II?

Even so, the 5w-30 is more volatile with a higher noack.

Long live the 10w

 

[427Z06]

Typical properties:

code:

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cSt 40°C 100°C Flash Point Pour Point Density Average Molecular Weight

64742-65-0 25.1 4.8 204°C -12°C 0.86 390

64742-54-7 73.9 9.1 232°C -9°C 0.88 500

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Looks like the more appropriate term is Group I+

Q&A...Meeting GF-4 Group I vs. Group II:

http://www.chevron.com/products/prodserv/BaseOils/gf4_faq.shtml

"Group I+: Still high sulfur and low saturates, but processing conditions have been adjusted to make higher VI. This higher VI, in the range of 100-105, gives better cold cranking and Noack performance, enabling these base oils to be used in 10W-30 engine oils with minimal Group III or Group II+ correction fluids."

"Group II+: Adjusting processing conditions, several refineries can make these oils with 110-120 VI. This enables significantly improved CCS and volatility, making it possible to blend 5W-20 and 5W-30 GF-3 and GF-4 engine oils using these oils without any correction fluids."

 

[77GrandPrix]

Thanks for the replies. I know for a fact that I did not overfill the crankcase. I always check oil level once the vehicle comes down off the ramps. I plan to put 5w30 in my wife's van at next change and see what it does. I would certainly hope that Valvoline would not still be using Group I base stock but, right now I'm really wondering.

 

[427Z06]

Whatever you say Ray.

MSDS from Vavoline

http://msds.ashland.com/ShowMSDS.asp?M=0366793&C=005&D=505&L=EN&F=ANSI&N=AC+5W20+12/1+QT
http://msds.ashland.com/ShowMSDS.asp?M=0172013&C=005&D=505&L=EN&F=ANSI&N=AC+5W30+12/1+QT
http://msds.ashland.com/ShowMSDS.asp?M=0170829&C=005&D=505&L=EN&F=ANSI&N=AC+10W30+12/1+QT

CAS Numbers

http://environmentalchemistry.com/yogi/chemicals/cn/Petroleum%A0Base%A0Oil.html
http://environmentalchemistry.com/y...reated%A0heavy%A0paraffinic%A0distillate.html

code:

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5w20 %49.0-59.0 Solvent Refined, Hydrotreated Heavy Paraffinic Distillate

%24.0- 34.0 Solvent-Refined/Dewaxed Heavy Paraffinic Distillate



5w30 %77.0-87.0 Solvent Refined, Hydrotreated Heavy Paraffinic Distillate



10w30 %79.0-89.0 Solvent-Refined/Dewaxed Heavy Paraffinic Distillate

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[77GrandPrix]

I looked on the Pennzoil and Castrol web sites and they don't list the Ford WSS M2C929-A spec for 10w30 either, only for 5w30. I would have looked at Havoline but, for some reason I am never able to get around well on Chevron web sites. Anyway, what does this Ford spec. represent?

 

[427Z06]

This is for the SM/GF-4 Valvoline All-Climate dino. All bets are off on other brands/grades as far as composition and performance.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Interesting discussion.
Yet we know from many UOAs that many SM/GF-4 5W30 oils still shear down to SAE20 like they used to. What gives?

 

[427Z06]

quote:

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Originally posted by friendly_jacek:
Yet we know from many UOAs that many SM/GF-4 5W30 oils still shear down to SAE20 like they used to. What gives?

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They all still contain VIIs.