Redline.....Thinking about it....
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Roy Howell's piece has the makings for the BITOG thread of the year. All this comparison of UOA over different oils and selecting an oil because it has a few or tens of ppm less wear metals than another, besides likely being statistically insignificant, is actually upside down.
Roy's last sentence suggests to me that for a typical grocery getter, you don't want to use Redline as it's geared towards high performance to the potential detriment of oil performance in the average car--potential detriment, that is, as I doubt it would really hurt the average car, just not geared towards it.
Roy's last sentence suggests to me that for a typical grocery getter, you don't want to use Redline as it's geared towards high performance to the potential detriment of oil performance in the average car--potential detriment, that is, as I doubt it would really hurt the average car, just not geared towards it.
This article might just help illustrate the issue of oil analysis and wear. I will point out that Blackstone and most consumer labs use ICP spectrometry, which has an upper particle detection limit of about 2 microns. Whereas Terry Dyson's lab uses Rotating Disk Emission spectroscopy (Rotrode) with an upper particle detection limit of about 5 to 10 microns. It is the region between 1 and 10 microns particle size that is crucial to accurate early detection of severe wear conditions.
Oil Analysis vs. Microscopic Debris Analysis: When and Why to Choose
Oil Analysis vs. Microscopic Debris Analysis: When and Why to Choose
Originally Posted By: RI_RS4
This article might just help illustrate the issue of oil analysis and wear. I will point out that Blackstone and most consumer labs use ICP spectrometry, which has an upper particle detection limit of about 2 microns. Whereas Terry Dyson's lab uses Rotating Disk Emission spectroscopy (Rotrode) with an upper particle detection limit of about 5 to 10 microns. It is the region between 1 and 10 microns particle size that is crucial to accurate early detection of severe wear conditions.
Oil Analysis vs. Microscopic Debris Analysis: When and Why to Choose
Hm I always wondered about that..ideally total particle count binned by particle size would be even better IMHO, something like:
0-5 microns count
5-10
10-20
>20
this would give you better idea if one oil works better then other..Does any lab give you particle counts like this?
This article might just help illustrate the issue of oil analysis and wear. I will point out that Blackstone and most consumer labs use ICP spectrometry, which has an upper particle detection limit of about 2 microns. Whereas Terry Dyson's lab uses Rotating Disk Emission spectroscopy (Rotrode) with an upper particle detection limit of about 5 to 10 microns. It is the region between 1 and 10 microns particle size that is crucial to accurate early detection of severe wear conditions.
Oil Analysis vs. Microscopic Debris Analysis: When and Why to Choose
Hm I always wondered about that..ideally total particle count binned by particle size would be even better IMHO, something like:
0-5 microns count
5-10
10-20
>20
this would give you better idea if one oil works better then other..Does any lab give you particle counts like this?
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Originally Posted By: bigbull2984
Ok I use Royal Purple in my 2001 Acura TL right now. I have 12 quarts left. Will I see any differ from Royal purple and going to redline. The only reason I am thinking of this is because I have a Amazon gift card.
I`d just keep on using your RP that you have.
Ok I use Royal Purple in my 2001 Acura TL right now. I have 12 quarts left. Will I see any differ from Royal purple and going to redline. The only reason I am thinking of this is because I have a Amazon gift card.
I`d just keep on using your RP that you have.
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Originally Posted By: bigbull2984
Screww it I used my Amazon cert on a Ipod Nano and Nike Running kit.
There ya go! That`s what I would`ve done. I would`ve bought some cds/music or something. Amazon has some killer import cd`s I`ve never seen available anywhere else. Just blast some cool tunes on your ipod while you`re filling up your car`s sump with the RP that you already have
Then of course reward yourself with an ice cold cerveza!
Screww it I used my Amazon cert on a Ipod Nano and Nike Running kit.
There ya go! That`s what I would`ve done. I would`ve bought some cds/music or something. Amazon has some killer import cd`s I`ve never seen available anywhere else. Just blast some cool tunes on your ipod while you`re filling up your car`s sump with the RP that you already have
So the foundation of oil analysis is essentially good for determining:
TBN: Is the oil still maitaining an alkalinic buffer
Viscosity: Is the oil within it's spec'd viscosity or how much has it moved
Presence of contaminants (intake problems, cooling problems)
Flashpoint/fuel dilution (maybe, very lab dependant)
Long term trends
But the idea that UOA can perceive one oil as being better than another based upon wear patterns, even in multiple of 2x or 3x as much particle count, means relatively nothing because our micron size is limited and a more aggressive anti-wear oil would tend to inflate particle count (at least initially).
Did I sum that up? I'm studying for the GMAT right now, so this is like a analysis of an issue for me
Joe
TBN: Is the oil still maitaining an alkalinic buffer
Viscosity: Is the oil within it's spec'd viscosity or how much has it moved
Presence of contaminants (intake problems, cooling problems)
Flashpoint/fuel dilution (maybe, very lab dependant)
Long term trends
But the idea that UOA can perceive one oil as being better than another based upon wear patterns, even in multiple of 2x or 3x as much particle count, means relatively nothing because our micron size is limited and a more aggressive anti-wear oil would tend to inflate particle count (at least initially).
Did I sum that up? I'm studying for the GMAT right now, so this is like a analysis of an issue for me
Joe
Originally Posted By: JoeFromPA
So the foundation of oil analysis is essentially good for determining:
TBN: Is the oil still maitaining an alkalinic buffer
Viscosity: Is the oil within it's spec'd viscosity or how much has it moved
Presence of contaminants (intake problems, cooling problems)
Flashpoint/fuel dilution (maybe, very lab dependant)
Long term trends
But the idea that UOA can perceive one oil as being better than another based upon wear patterns, even in multiple of 2x or 3x as much particle count, means relatively nothing because our micron size is limited and a more aggressive anti-wear oil would tend to inflate particle count (at least initially).
Did I sum that up? I'm studying for the GMAT right now, so this is like a analysis of an issue for me
Joe
I think that is excellent summary on what UOA can be used for.
So the foundation of oil analysis is essentially good for determining:
TBN: Is the oil still maitaining an alkalinic buffer
Viscosity: Is the oil within it's spec'd viscosity or how much has it moved
Presence of contaminants (intake problems, cooling problems)
Flashpoint/fuel dilution (maybe, very lab dependant)
Long term trends
But the idea that UOA can perceive one oil as being better than another based upon wear patterns, even in multiple of 2x or 3x as much particle count, means relatively nothing because our micron size is limited and a more aggressive anti-wear oil would tend to inflate particle count (at least initially).
Did I sum that up? I'm studying for the GMAT right now, so this is like a analysis of an issue for me
Joe
I think that is excellent summary on what UOA can be used for.
Originally Posted By: RI_RS4
Oil Analysis vs. Microscopic Debris Analysis: When and Why to Choose
If that articles was there, it doesn't seem to be now. Wonder what happened?
Ken
Oil Analysis vs. Microscopic Debris Analysis: When and Why to Choose
If that articles was there, it doesn't seem to be now. Wonder what happened?
Ken
Originally Posted By: kbuzbee
Originally Posted By: RI_RS4
Oil Analysis vs. Microscopic Debris Analysis: When and Why to Choose
If that articles was there, it doesn't seem to be now. Wonder what happened?
Ken
A Google search turned it up here:
http://www.oilanalysis.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=600
Originally Posted By: RI_RS4
Oil Analysis vs. Microscopic Debris Analysis: When and Why to Choose
If that articles was there, it doesn't seem to be now. Wonder what happened?
Ken
A Google search turned it up here:
http://www.oilanalysis.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=600
And here as well (in case the above link goes down):
http://www.noria.com/learning_center/category_article.asp?articleid=600&relatedbookgroup=OilAnalysis
http://www.noria.com/learning_center/category_article.asp?articleid=600&relatedbookgroup=OilAnalysis
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