Redline or Amsoil for Dex II application

[JHZR2]

Hi,

I am replacing the fluid in my 83 MB 300D. Original transmission, always had MB dealer ATF, 228k miles. The specs require Dexron II fluid.

Redline has a fluid that is explicitly Dexron II, and MB transmission compatible. It is not even Dexron III or VI rated, nor is it rated for anything else but original Mercon.

It seems like a great fit for this vehicle, which has synthetic fluids everywhere else.

Now, Amsoil has a universal (Dexron II and MB compatible) fluid that Ive heard some good things about. But it is not an explicitly Dex II and MB only fluid.

What do you think??? Amsoil ATF or Redline Synthetic ATF?

Thanks,

JMH

 

[JHZR2]

... also redline is only $7.75/qt. at my oil shop, vs. $9.05 for amsoil...

JMH

 

[The Critic]

If it specs Dexron-II, it is superseded by Dexron-VI. There is no reason to use an outdated fluid.

In that transmission, just use an over-the-counter Dexron-III and be done with it. Synthetic isn't worth the risk for leaks.

 

[JHZR2]

Im not very worried about leaks... as far as I know, the only thing that would be at risk for a big leak would be the pan gasket, which is replaced with the fluid...

Dexron II is a big difference as compared to Dexron VI. Im not sure that I want to make that change, despite the backwards compatibility...

Dexron III might be OK, bt there is some set of MB specs to be met too, which the average OTC ATF might not meet - not that I know what they are...

JMH

 

[The Critic]

If anything will leak, it wouldn't be a pan gasket...from past experience. Usually it's something that's a bit more difficult to reach.

Does the transmission call for Dexron-II, "mystery" MB specs, or both? If it only calls for Dexron-II, then use Dexron-IIIH or Dexron-VI with confidence. As far as I know, the older MBs just spec-ed Dexron.

 

[TimVipond]

Hmmm. The AMSOIL site specifically recommends their ATF for your specific vehicle and is warranted for 50,000 severe miles, 100,000 normal miles or longer if stated by your owners manual. They have been making synthetic ATF since 1980. Specs are AMSOIL Synthetic Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF)
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)6.8 RL=7.2
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)33.5 RL= 35.
Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270)168 RL = 197
Noack Volatility, % weight loss (ASTM D-5800)10.2
Flash Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-92) 222 (432) RL = 224 (435)
Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-97)-52 (-61) RL = -60F
Four Ball Wear Test, Scar in mm; 40 kg, 75°C, 1200 rpm, 1 hr (ASTM D-4172B)0.40
Brookfield Viscosity (cP)-20°C = 1298
Brookfield Viscosity (cP)-40°C = 9326 RL = 4500

The only advantage I see to Red Line is the better viscosity index. AMSOIL seems to have all the other points covered better. I just switched to AMSOIL from whatever the dealer put in and noticed a quieter, smoother transmission. As soon as the Texas State Police get their new cars, they immediately drain the factory fluid, put in AMSOIL ATF and never touch it again as long as they have the car.

I'd go with the AMSOIL.

 

[TimVipond]

The second advantage the Red Line has is the thinner viscosity at -40C, yet is slightly thicker at 40C. You might try to find the -40C spec for whatever ATF you dealer put in. I would guess that it is probably thicker than the AMSOIL and if so I would still go with the AMSOIL. If it is thinner than the AMSOIL and your transmission feels sluggish when driving, you should consider Red Line. I know it can get very cold in New Jersey, so you could compare that spec to both ATF's.

 

[The Critic]

It's been in the 20s this past week or so in Sacramento and SuperTech Dexron-IIIH conventional shifts great works great in my FWD GM unit. Shifts smooth and without delay right from the get go. Only about 70% of the fluid in there is Dexron-IIIH as well, rest is Dexron-IIIG.

Tim, you know that you are picking nits here, right?

 

[JHZR2]

While I agree with you on leaks and whatnot... something tells me that there is more than a little difference between a 20+ year old, original, perfect-operating MB AT, and a 'slightly' newer FWD GM AT.

While I have no doubt that GM makes the better ATX, and I would have no issue putting Dex VI or IIIH or whatnot in a newer vehicle, regardless of mileage... I wonder how additive chemistries and everything adds up. At least with redline, though the base oil is significantly different, I have (supposedly) an add pack that meets exactly what my car calls for - Mercedes Benz approved Dexron II. OK, maybe MB does not actually approve redline ATF, but its a step backwards, and it seems to me to be a step in the right direction...

While I have no issue putting the newest motor oils into an older engine (and I do, up until its availability ceased, the engine had Delvac 1, now itll have schaeffer's 9000), something makes me uneasy about automatic transmissions... though Im not scared of the syn baseoil - Im scared of the additive packs...

Thanks!

JMH

 

[Lurker_Ken]

Did you consider Schaeffer's dex II / III ATF?

Ken

 

[unDummy]

Since Dexron II has been replaced by Dexron III, you can just use any DexronIII ATF.
DexronVI has only been approved for GM vehicles.

You can probably get M1 or RP cheaper at the local autoparts stores.

 

[Pablo]

I would do a FULL flush with a no-name Dexron. Then drive the car for 5000 miles or so. If no issues arise, flush and fill with Amsoil ATF.

 

[JHZR2]

I know no issues have arisen... other than sitting in my garage for 2 years due to it being hit in 04, the trans has shifted and operated perfectly for the many miles that Ive used the car. I anticipate no issues as-is.

JMH

 

[JHZR2]

Quote:

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DexronVI has only been approved for GM vehicles.

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AAAH!!! key words that I did not realize.

It may not matter as of yet, with so much Dex III available, but this is something to consider for a long-term PM regimen. Given how this vehicle runs and operates, I fully anticipate 500k miles. At that point, whenever it is, Im not sure that Dex III will even be available anymore!

Thanks,

JMH

 

[ConfederateTyrant]

You won't have any issues using Amsoil ATF, it is still recommended for Dexron II (as well as III and VI) applications. Use Auto-RX before doing the switchover, regardless of whether you use Amsoil or Redline.

 

[The Critic]

Dexron-VI is fully back serviceable with any vehicle requiring Dexron-III(H) or older.

 

[KBFXDLI]

Hmmm...228k on dexII with no issue. I think I would go to walmart and buy some pennzoil dexIII for $8/gallon. Using redline or amsoil at this point would be like getting a bo ob job for an 85 year old woman....IMHO

 

[JHZR2]

Quote:

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Hmmm...228k on dexII with no issue. I think I would go to walmart and buy some pennzoil dexIII for $8/gallon. Using redline or amsoil at this point would be like getting a bo ob job for an 85 year old woman....IMHO

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you need to understand these cars though... for average Joe's car, maybe... for these, 400k miles is not that rare. These cars truly were designed for service ease, longevity, and to provide a very robust product. They are one of the finesty vehicles ever put on the road. I have full confidence in driving this vehicle anywhere, and did until it got hit.

I will again...

The problem is that ATF is much less well understood than, say, diff oil or motor oil. There is a uch more complex interaction going on, and getting the chemistry right for lube, friction surfaces, etc. is a complex task, thus my question. And, regardless of how geat a vehicle is, transmissions can be iffy - this one has proven itself via gentle use and loving care, but its still an AT.

That is why the combination of gentle use, loving care, tailored chemistry, and the best in fluids will ensure lots more use, and a delay before a rebuild is necessary.

JMH

 

[Whitewolf]

The Critic is correct DEXRON=VI is back serviceable and it is way better than any fluid that claims dexron-II performance.

 

[KBFXDLI]

Quote:

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Quote:

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Hmmm...228k on dexII with no issue. I think I would go to walmart and buy some pennzoil dexIII for $8/gallon. Using redline or amsoil at this point would be like getting a bo ob job for an 85 year old woman....IMHO

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you need to understand these cars though... for average Joe's car, maybe... for these, 400k miles is not that rare. These cars truly were designed for service ease, longevity, and to provide a very robust product. They are one of the finesty vehicles ever put on the road. I have full confidence in driving this vehicle anywhere, and did until it got hit.

I will again...

The problem is that ATF is much less well understood than, say, diff oil or motor oil. There is a uch more complex interaction going on, and getting the chemistry right for lube, friction surfaces, etc. is a complex task, thus my question. And, regardless of how geat a vehicle is, transmissions can be iffy - this one has proven itself via gentle use and loving care, but its still an AT.

That is why the combination of gentle use, loving care, tailored chemistry, and the best in fluids will ensure lots more use, and a delay before a rebuild is necessary.

JMH

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My point was that DexIIIH exceeds the oil spec for your trans and is only $2 a quart why not use it? I understand that DEXVI is better but is it 3 times better for your application? Just a thought. By the time you need to change it again DEXVI will probably be $3-4 a qt. If you are bent on a synthetic then I would use Mobil 1 Syn atf which is still cheaper than DEXVI and fully synthetic.