Redline 15W50, 8025 miles, Honda ST1100

[Rick_A]

1999 Honda ST1100
Water-cooled V4
Shared engine/trans. oil, wet clutch

Comments:
Redline 15W50 oil
Purolator automotive oil filter
2 stroke oil or MMO as a UCL.

I left the oil in and just pulled a sample this time.
It looks like the viscosity held up very well.
Blackstone noted the increased lead and suggested that I change the oil before long. However, the lead doesn't concern me too much so I'm going
to leave this oil in for a few thousand more miles to see how it holds up.

Funny thing is that I did an oil test on our Saturn a month or so ago and it also showed a sudden increase in lead. I use a UCL of either Supertech
2 stroke oil or MMO. I wonder if the lead is from one of the additives?? I don't think it is from the gas because we use a different brand in them.




Blackstone Labs Test results:

Oil..............Delvac 15W40....Rotella 5W40........Mobil 1 15W50........Redline 15W50
Filter.............PL14612..........Bosch 3423?...........Bosch 3423............PL14612?
Total Miles....119,028..............127,052................135,020................143,045
Miles on oil....8,016...................8,062...................8,024..................8,025
Time on Oil..3 1/2 Mo................6 Mo...................6 Mo.....................6 Mo
Make up oil......0.........................0........................0.....................0
.
Aluminum...........10.........................7.....................9....................6
Chromium.........1.......................1.........................1.....................0
Iron...........14.....................16.........................21........................11
Copper............3.....................3......................5...........................5
Lead...........3......................4.........................7...........................13
Tin.............0......................0.........................1..........................3
Moly..........51....................9..........................80..........................586
Nickel.....0...........................1...........................1........................0
Manganese......0......................0......................0...........................0
Silver..............0.....................0.....................0...........................0
Titanium..........0......................0......................0.........................0
Potassium.......2.......................3........................1........................0
Boron.........27......................7.........................53........................3
Silicon........11....................11.........................24.........................18
Sodium.............343....................262....................109....................39
Calcium.......1169.................2722......................2284......................2625
Magnesium......735....................92......................26.......................12
Phosphorus..806...................1051.......................994.......................1129
Zinc..................1018...................1276..................1186..................1326
Barium...............0........................1......................0......................0

Flashpoint F...........385......................390..................400..................395
Fuel.....................TR...................... Antifreeze............ ??........................ ??................... ??.................... 0
Water....................0...........................0....................0....................0
Insoluables..........0.3........................0.2....................0.2....................0.3
SUS Visc@210f....66.0......................66.1....................73.3....................88.0
cST Visc@100c...........11.89.......................11.91..............13.81..............17.50
TBN.......................4.2........................6.1..................5.7..................4.5

 

[Steve S]

The Redline is on the thicker end of the 50 viscosity. You sure put the miles on.

 

[whitesands]

The Redline certainly held up much better than the Mobil 15W50....Aluminum and iron went down quite a bit but lead and tin went up...Looks pretty good.

 

[sunruh]

looks great except for the lead. wonder why that shot up? or is it merely the testers?
depending on price, i would say you've probably found your perfect oil.

 

[dsmith41]

I've been following your UOAs on this bike for a while and I'd say you have one fine wearing Honda engine!

Having over 140k on a bike is awesome! I am curious as to what kind of riding you do to get so many miles. Did you buy the bike new in '99 or did you get it used? Are you an Iron Butter or something?

 

[Craig750]

Why did you choose 15w50 auto oil over 20w50 mc oil?

 

[fuel tanker man]

Aluminum and chromium are down... of course you'll see that anyway as an engine's rings lose tension against the cylinder walls... compression drops steadily over the life of an engine and you'd expect to see wear metals from the cylinder rings and piston sleeves drop, no matter the oil. Your long running patterns reflect this, even though you have used different oils. I think these cylinder wall and piston ring wear numbers would have dropped with just about any oil, because your compression is dropping...

Lead is up a fair bit... not sure if that's in the Redline recipe or not... if not, it's coming from bearings, but it's still only a tiny amount comparatively, especially for an engine with this many miles on it. Not sure where you'd find tin in this engine, but some is now showing up...

Do you have any universal average wear metal numbers for this engine?

Viscosity is strong, but if there's any "magic" to the TBN the Rotella and the Mobil 1 out performed the Redline in this department.

All of these oils seem to have performed well, with the wear metals being kept to a minimum for 8000 mile intervals.

My question would simply be, why pay double or even triple the price for an oil which is doing nothing more for your engine than the 15W40 diesel oils did?

(Maybe you agree, I'm just asking rhetorically)...

Dan

 

[Rick_A]

Originally Posted By: sunruh
looks great except for the lead. wonder why that shot up? or is it merely the testers?
depending on price, i would say you've probably found your perfect oil.


I’m not sure about the lead, it also shot up in my last car UOA.
I’ll stop adding the UCL and see what this oil looks like at 12,000

Rick

 

[Rick_A]

Dsmith41

I bought the bike ‘slightly’ used with just under 5,000 miles on it. Most of the miles are are California freeways at about 80mph (4000 rpm) although the bike has had a lot of 2-up touring also. My daily commute is about 100 miles round trip so it adds up quick. I also ride a Goldwing and an old Yamaha that don’t get nearly the miles put on them.

Rick

 

[Rick_A]

Craig

The Redline oil was leftover from an air-cooled offroad car that I no longer had so I just wanted to get rid of the oil.
But I will say that I would not go out of my way to buy MC oil either. From the tests that I have run and others that I read I see no advantage to MC oils and they cost too much in my opinion.

Rick

 

[Rick_A]

Dan

The universal averages from Blackstone are:
Alum = 7
Chrom = 1
Iron = 20
Copper =4
Lead = 3
Tin = 1

You asked why I would pay this much for Redline? I probably wouldn’t. I just wanted to get rid of this oil and see how the tests would look. I did leave it in the bike so we’ll see what it looks like at 12,000 miles.
If I were going to buy oil for it today I’d pick up one of the HDEOs but I still have a big oil stash to burn through.

Here is something to think about: It cost me about $30.00 more to run the Redline over and HDEO but during this 12,000 mile run I’ll use about $900.00 in Gas and Tires and my bike is really easy on both. The cost of the oil over 12,000 miles is a very small part of my expenses.

BTW, no doubt the engine is wearing at this mileage but my compression was identical on all four cylinders and within factory specs last time I checked it. It will be interesting to see how long this engine will continue to run so well and have no oil usage.

Rick

 

[berlyn]

Hello Dan

this is a perfect UOA, not to mention the extended 8000 miles.

I am a little over protecting with mine, i change the oil every 3000 miles, Maxima extra or Mobil Vtwin, but i ride only on highways and 90% of the miles are 3/4 open throttle.I am an owner of a Honda V-2 90 1000cc, Honda Varadero, how was your clutch functioning? The gear box?

Please advise.

 

[Craig750]

Ok, I plugged them there those figures into a spreadsheet to do the shearing statistics. I assuming a 15.5cSt @ 40c for the Delvac, I am guessing it is 1300.

Anyway the shearing figures %/1000mile are. Not saying it is linear BTW.

1) Redline 15W50 1.34
2) Rotella 5w40 2.00
3) Delvac 15W40 2.91
4) Mobil 1 15W50 2.95


Total shearing %
1) 10.7
2) 16.1
3) 23.3
4) 23.7

Redline held up the best. Rotella did pretty well. Delvac and Mobil 1 virtual tie. They both almost lost 1/4 of their original viscosity.

 

[Rick_A]

Berlyn,

The clutch is the original and has not given me any problems. It will chatter when cold if I accelerate hard however, it has always done that since new regardless of which oil I run.
The transmission feels the same as it always has and I can’t tell any real difference between the different oils or ‘old’ vs ‘new oil.

Rick

 

[Rick_A]

Craig,

Interesting data on shearing.
Have you ever researched shearing vs. miles in service.
I tested a batch of Delo at 3,000, 5,000, and 8,000 miles and found that most of the shearing had taken place by the 3,000 mile test. After that the oil stayed pretty constant.
I have also read that most of the shearing happens before 1500 miles.

Rick

 

[sunruh]

rick,
all of my data is from under 75 miles. and i kill it in those 75. if it didnt flatten out, but continued to shear, by 1500 miles i would drain out NEGATIVE weight oil.

a few hold up, most dont.

 

[Craig750]

Hi Rick. No, haven't done any shearing vs distance or time on oil. I just like to get an idea on % shear as some of the original weights vary quite a bit around a grade on VO.

As sunruh implies, the % / distance is not a good stat to report. Should have put total % first.

 

[Craig750]

On a long haul on oil, that is.