Redline 10W-30 6,028 miles Tacoma 3.4 L 5VZFE

[toyguy]

OK –

Here’s this year’s UOA on my baby, and since I find Blackstone’s report slightly troubling, here’s some additional info:

· Truck has 130K on it, and have been using Redline since 120K
· Prior oil type was Valvoline Full Syn 10W-30
· I had been using the Valvoline ever since purchasing the truck used @ 28K miles. Do not know truck history.
· Truck has been well-maintained
· Oil Filter – Amsoil EAO-57
· July 07 Compression check: all cyl > 92% altitude-adj spec
· Truck has not been a daily driver since 118K.
· 95% of all mileage since 122K has been towing mileage.

Blackstone has once again commented on elevated iron levels. I think I’ve figured out what’s going on.

I bought a small boat at 122K miles, Total towing weight is, IMO, quite light: 1400# for boat/trailer/AND my fishing gear. 5VZ towing capacity is (supposedly) 5000 lbs!

Basically, I switched to Redline at 120K, bought the boat at 122k, and got first Redline UOA @ 124K. So the two most recent of the three UOA’s are Redline. So the Oil Report comment about “operational change on my part” may just be spot on.

I am just saddened that such a light tow is causing increased iron wear in the 3.4. I have never been a fan of the power of the 3.4 anyway, and it does in fact look like this towing weight is stressing the engine somewhat.

However, I am heartened by the Oilyriser’s comment last year when I posted my UOA:
“At 4000 miles a year, it'll last a very long time even if iron is 100 ppm.”

Here’s the thread: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/1155537/

And it’s safe to say that future annual mileage will be in the 5k to 8k range.


So two questions for you guys:

1. The 5VZ is an iron block with alumie heads. Any guesses where the iron’s coming from? I know, it could be anywhere…

2. Oil Report commenter wondered about going back to petroleum-based oil. But he did not know I have been towing since 122K. Would you switch to something other than Redline, or is Redline the best defense again towing-induced increased engine stress?

Thanks to all of you who take the time to reply. I'll be watching the thread pretty closely since I have questions. All comments welcome!

 

[tomcat27]

iron must be from the cylinder walls or camshaft. and no, that is not a heavy tow load. I used to tow that with a 2.5L 4 cylinder. do you have any UOA's from a non-towing stretch?

 

[toyguy]

Pre-towing UOA would be the far right column. That's Valvoline @ 120K. Boat was bought at 122K.

I run 5.29 gearing in the truck, and have since about 70K miles

Tach redline is 5,500 rpm's and I never shift above 4,000 r's. This truck is somewhat babied.

 

[saaber1]

I would suggest combing the net (and Bitog) for similar use (towing) UOAs on the same engine to compare. As you said, 95% of the post 122k mileage has been towing miles. 17ppm in 6000 miles is not much and is far, far from alarming levels IMO.

For reference, in the VW 2.0FSI, the normal iron levels on the 40+ UOAs we have are twice your highest level (different engine completely, but just as a point of reference). It probably looks like a lot because you are used to seeing the non-towing 4 ppm levels.

From what I have seen, some engines do increase iron levels in UOAs a lot when run under higher load, while some engines don't increase much. f.e.:

1) Back when I was researching Porsche 986 UOAs, I noticed a dramatic difference in the iron levels of the mildly driven ones vs. the ones driven harder. Neither group had iron levels of concern. It was a difference between 12ppm for the easy-does it group and 29 ppm for the harder group. Also if you look at some of the non-porsche tracked cars, the iron levels can be quite high, even on very short runs. These elevated iron levels are not at the level of concern and reflect the different use IMO.

2) Looking at some of the BMW cars that had considerable track time, many of those iron levels don't look high at all. So that is an example of minimal iron increase despite harder use.

 

[toyguy]

Saaber1 wrote: “17ppm in 6000 miles is not much and is far, far from alarming levels IMO.”

Thx for the thoughtful and detailed reply. I tend to be a hand-wringer when it comes to this truck, so it’s nice to hear you affirm what Oilyriser wrote last year.

I would like to have this engine last another 50K (towing) miles. Based on what you’ve written, I’m prolly good to go.

BTW, stick with Redline, right?

 

[buster]

I would stick with Redline but you are most likely not going to see any advantage under the conditions you use it in. Redline excels in extreme high temperature situations.

 

[toyguy]

Buster wrote: "Redline excels in extreme high temperature situations."

Engine temp or ambient temp?

Also, can you put a number on "extreme high temp"? I'm a numbers guy by trade

And come to think of it, I really don't know what my internal engine temps ever get to. I wonder if my 182F thermostat is a clue?

 

[FZ1]

I think you are fine,man. Not that much iron,less if you reduced the oci to 5k. Just drive it 55-60. Is it an automatic?

 

[buster]

High oil temps, such as a turbocharged motor. The Fe is fine. My point was Redline excels at certain things and for normal driving conditions it's overkill. Stick with the RL though. Small American company making the only available majority POE based oils on the market.

 

[toyguy]

Originally Posted By: FZ1
I think you are fine,man. Not that much iron,less if you reduced the oci to 5k. Just drive it 55-60. Is it an automatic?


Nope. Manual (R151). And my highway cruising speed is between 65 & 70; or rather, 3200 to 3400 r's (again, on a 5500 r redline)

 

[FZ1]

That's pretty fast for towing. You need to have a spare trailer tire and a "care package" of a trailer hub with races,bearings,seal,grease,cotter pins, kastle nut,washer,jack,and tools in case a trailer hub goes. Other than that,watch your line and set the hook,Hard!!

 

[OVERKILL]

FWIW, buster has a letter from Redline talking about the chemical composition of the oil causing increased "wear metals" in UOA's.

 

[tig1]

What's wrong with the iron? Normal is up to 100 or more PPM. your well below that.

 

[Ben99GT]

Do a couple few more changes with RedLine then get another UOA. I bet wear metals drop off to noise levels.

RedLine is known for causing wear metal spikes over the first few oil changes after switching to it, it's apparently a trait of the highly polar POE base oils cleaning up minor oxidation and ring deposits left behind by other oils. Whatever the reason, it's true that RedLine shows a spike in wear metals initially then they drop off after a few oil change intervals. Being that you made the change on a higher mileage vehicle, it may take your truck a little longer to settle off.

Also keep in mind the real value of UOAs, which are not wear metals (because they only pickup particle sizes in a narrow range), but determining how long an oil can go (TBN, shearing) or spotting any potential issues, like air filtration, fuel dilution, coolant leaks, etc.

A few ppm difference in a UOA could mean absolutely nothing in the overall scheme. You're running one of the finest motor oils available anywhere, don't let a few ppm of wear metals after recent changeover scare you back into an inferior oil (unless you just want to save money with a cheaper oil).

 

[iunderpressure]

+1 for everything Ben99GT just said.

 

[addyguy]

Iron is still pretty low in general. I think most of it can be attributed to the different chemistry of Redline in the engine for the first couple of times.....

 

[elwaylite]

These UOA's really make me consider running the 0w-20 in both my cars.

 

[toyguy]

Wow, some more really thoughtful replies since I last checked in.

OVERKILL – your FWIW is worth a lot. As long as the increased wear metals don’t show too much wear. And as many of you have written here, 17 PPM is nuthin. I’ll sleep easy knowin that.

Ben99GT – what you’ve written is quite similar to what JohnBrowning wrote last year:

“First it has been said about 10,000 time now but I will say it again. You will not get an accurate reading with Redline until it has been run at least 2 sometimes 3 OCI's. I would add that normally that is 2-3 OCI's of at least 5000 to 7500 miles. Redline does a lot of cleaning not like Auto-Rx level of cleaning but still drastic from an oil's standpoint. So this 3000 mile OCI is not really reflecting the oils performance as an engine protector. This is one of the problems with running Redline. We have in the past consistently seen Redline turn in some insanely good UOA especially in Toyota's but it normal took about 3 OCI's before that happened. Granted this was years ago when I first joined this site but it still seems to hold true. Any oil that has an extremely high ester content can have this effect especially pronounced on vehicles that have run GIII and lower base stock oils!”


Thanks to all of you for the time you have taken; I’ll stick with Redline, and it looks like the truck is still in great shape.

C U in 6000 miles…

tg