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- Dec 30, 2006
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What oil are you running now?
RedLine 10w-30 5k mi; Honda S2000 40k mi
- Thread starter depo26
- Start date
UPDATE:
I did another UOA on the PP 10-30 with 3200 miles on it. The PP was a bit disappointing in regards to viscosity.
Copper and lead numbers have gone down despite the car being driven a bit harder with about 4 track hours on it, but they are still elevated. The car has all season tires so there's little chance of oil starvation and there is no blowby. Calcium numbers are much lower in the PP, which would cause lower oxidization cleanup and therefore less metal in the oil.
I'm going to swap the oil out again, just trying to decide whether or not to go with redline or another oil. I'm leaning towards redline with the rationale that it's a better protective oil on track and now I've seen that the wear has gone down with a different oil, I will be able to see if it increases the next time with Redline, which would reinforce the thesis that Redline is cleaning up old oxidization.
Thoughts?
The blue numbers for PP under lead and copper are the actual test values multiplied by the extra % of miles that would have been driven on this sample to make it equivalent to the Redline sample. They are the true comparison numbers the to the previous Redline sample.
![[Linked Image]](https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2020/04/full-83220-43561-screen_shot_2020_04_16_at_17.53.20.png "[Linked Image]")
I did another UOA on the PP 10-30 with 3200 miles on it. The PP was a bit disappointing in regards to viscosity.
Copper and lead numbers have gone down despite the car being driven a bit harder with about 4 track hours on it, but they are still elevated. The car has all season tires so there's little chance of oil starvation and there is no blowby. Calcium numbers are much lower in the PP, which would cause lower oxidization cleanup and therefore less metal in the oil.
I'm going to swap the oil out again, just trying to decide whether or not to go with redline or another oil. I'm leaning towards redline with the rationale that it's a better protective oil on track and now I've seen that the wear has gone down with a different oil, I will be able to see if it increases the next time with Redline, which would reinforce the thesis that Redline is cleaning up old oxidization.
Thoughts?
The blue numbers for PP under lead and copper are the actual test values multiplied by the extra % of miles that would have been driven on this sample to make it equivalent to the Redline sample. They are the true comparison numbers the to the previous Redline sample.
Triple_Se7en
$50 Site Donor 2024
I think a more suitable oil for this 2.2 is 0w40 Castrol Euro Edge A3/B4.
Looking back, you should have did a second oci with Redline to see if the wear went down. Constantly changing oils doesn't give you a fair reading as the previous fill is mixed it. I ran Redline for over 150,000 miles and it got better and better. Their 10w30 is probably thicker than some 40wts. Trav had great insight on engine wear and I am of the opinion that it is possible that the previous owner didn't get the car up to temp before ripping on it or used an oil not up to the task. Again, use the Redline and uoa it, then use it again and get a more consistent answer. Good luck
Either oil is likely to give marginally even lower iron and copper wear in the next UOA , IMHO .
OP should maintain current PP in the upcoming oil change to establish declining wear trends to be followed by a Redline 10W30 UOA to 'demonstrate' its socalled cleaning capabilities if and when iron and copper rises then .
OP should maintain current PP in the upcoming oil change to establish declining wear trends to be followed by a Redline 10W30 UOA to 'demonstrate' its socalled cleaning capabilities if and when iron and copper rises then .
Originally Posted by zeng
Either oil is likely to give marginally even lower iron and copper wear in the next UOA , IMHO .
OP should maintain current PP in the upcoming oil change to establish declining wear trends to be followed by a Redline 10W30 UOA to 'demonstrate' its socalled cleaning capabilities if and when iron and copper rises then .
Agree!!!
Either oil is likely to give marginally even lower iron and copper wear in the next UOA , IMHO .
OP should maintain current PP in the upcoming oil change to establish declining wear trends to be followed by a Redline 10W30 UOA to 'demonstrate' its socalled cleaning capabilities if and when iron and copper rises then .
Agree!!!
Originally Posted by Marco620
Looking back, you should have did a second oci with Redline to see if the wear went down. Constantly changing oils doesn't give you a fair reading as the previous fill is mixed it. I ran Redline for over 150,000 miles and it got better and better. Their 10w30 is probably thicker than some 40wts. Trav had great insight on engine wear and I am of the opinion that it is possible that the previous owner didn't get the car up to temp before ripping on it or used an oil not up to the task. Again, use the Redline and uoa it, then use it again and get a more consistent answer. Good luck
^^ Definitely agree with this post. ^^
With that said there was so much talk that he should change oils that I don't blame him for giving it a try.
There was a comment in the early days of this thread that Red Line was causing those metals to "dissolve"? I'm assuming it was meant to say that Red Line cleans aggressively. However for it to dissolve the metal components of bearings and such doesn't seem to be a reality when we consider the purpose of oil... Is there any documentation to show that being the case with Red Line oil?
Looking back, you should have did a second oci with Redline to see if the wear went down. Constantly changing oils doesn't give you a fair reading as the previous fill is mixed it. I ran Redline for over 150,000 miles and it got better and better. Their 10w30 is probably thicker than some 40wts. Trav had great insight on engine wear and I am of the opinion that it is possible that the previous owner didn't get the car up to temp before ripping on it or used an oil not up to the task. Again, use the Redline and uoa it, then use it again and get a more consistent answer. Good luck
^^ Definitely agree with this post. ^^
With that said there was so much talk that he should change oils that I don't blame him for giving it a try.
There was a comment in the early days of this thread that Red Line was causing those metals to "dissolve"? I'm assuming it was meant to say that Red Line cleans aggressively. However for it to dissolve the metal components of bearings and such doesn't seem to be a reality when we consider the purpose of oil... Is there any documentation to show that being the case with Red Line oil?
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
I think a more suitable oil for this 2.2 is 0w40 Castrol Euro Edge A3/B4.
Thanks, I'll look into it. It's a bit thicker, which isn't optimal for this engine's tight bearing clearances, but I'll have a look at it.
Originally Posted by Marco620
Looking back, you should have did a second oci with Redline to see if the wear went down. Constantly changing oils doesn't give you a fair reading as the previous fill is mixed it. I ran Redline for over 150,000 miles and it got better and better. Their 10w30 is probably thicker than some 40wts. Trav had great insight on engine wear and I am of the opinion that it is possible that the previous owner didn't get the car up to temp before ripping on it or used an oil not up to the task. Again, use the Redline and uoa it, then use it again and get a more consistent answer. Good luck
You're probably right, I kind of freaked out when I saw the original numbers and grabbed the best I could find at Walmart. I have an oil change planned in the next couple weeks. These engines are a little hard to fill properly and check the oil level. I'm thinking to drain and turn the engine over to get as much of the existing oil out as possible.
Originally Posted by zeng
Either oil is likely to give marginally even lower iron and copper wear in the next UOA , IMHO .
OP should maintain current PP in the upcoming oil change to establish declining wear trends to be followed by a Redline 10W30 UOA to 'demonstrate' its socalled cleaning capabilities if and when iron and copper rises then .
I'm not going to reuse the PP after viewing the decrease in viscosity (see report above), especially as I plan to do a few more HPDE days this summer. The person at blackstone said viscosity is lower than it should be, which hurts my confidence in PP with this engine and how it handles heat.
Originally Posted by Bonz
There was a comment in the early days of this thread that Red Line was causing those metals to "dissolve"? I'm assuming it was meant to say that Red Line cleans aggressively. However for it to dissolve the metal components of bearings and such doesn't seem to be a reality when we consider the purpose of oil... Is there any documentation to show that being the case with Red Line oil?
I think the "dissolve" refers to cleaning up engine wear/varnish/oxidization. I don't recall the exact term for what it cleans, but the guy I spoke with at redline said it cleans aggressively compared to other oils, as you can see it has a 3x higher value of calcium than PP. Logically, it's very possible there was some wear or an additive used (who knows why), and Redline is aggressively cleaning it out.
I think a more suitable oil for this 2.2 is 0w40 Castrol Euro Edge A3/B4.
Thanks, I'll look into it. It's a bit thicker, which isn't optimal for this engine's tight bearing clearances, but I'll have a look at it.
Originally Posted by Marco620
Looking back, you should have did a second oci with Redline to see if the wear went down. Constantly changing oils doesn't give you a fair reading as the previous fill is mixed it. I ran Redline for over 150,000 miles and it got better and better. Their 10w30 is probably thicker than some 40wts. Trav had great insight on engine wear and I am of the opinion that it is possible that the previous owner didn't get the car up to temp before ripping on it or used an oil not up to the task. Again, use the Redline and uoa it, then use it again and get a more consistent answer. Good luck
You're probably right, I kind of freaked out when I saw the original numbers and grabbed the best I could find at Walmart. I have an oil change planned in the next couple weeks. These engines are a little hard to fill properly and check the oil level. I'm thinking to drain and turn the engine over to get as much of the existing oil out as possible.
Originally Posted by zeng
Either oil is likely to give marginally even lower iron and copper wear in the next UOA , IMHO .
OP should maintain current PP in the upcoming oil change to establish declining wear trends to be followed by a Redline 10W30 UOA to 'demonstrate' its socalled cleaning capabilities if and when iron and copper rises then .
I'm not going to reuse the PP after viewing the decrease in viscosity (see report above), especially as I plan to do a few more HPDE days this summer. The person at blackstone said viscosity is lower than it should be, which hurts my confidence in PP with this engine and how it handles heat.
Originally Posted by Bonz
There was a comment in the early days of this thread that Red Line was causing those metals to "dissolve"? I'm assuming it was meant to say that Red Line cleans aggressively. However for it to dissolve the metal components of bearings and such doesn't seem to be a reality when we consider the purpose of oil... Is there any documentation to show that being the case with Red Line oil?
I think the "dissolve" refers to cleaning up engine wear/varnish/oxidization. I don't recall the exact term for what it cleans, but the guy I spoke with at redline said it cleans aggressively compared to other oils, as you can see it has a 3x higher value of calcium than PP. Logically, it's very possible there was some wear or an additive used (who knows why), and Redline is aggressively cleaning it out.
Much of the calcium is a friction reducer. Molakule posted about this not long ago.
Red Line certainly keeps things clean. Red Line engines are unbelievably clean inside, even at high miles. Pictorial threads here (and my own experience) make this crystal clear.
Red Line certainly keeps things clean. Red Line engines are unbelievably clean inside, even at high miles. Pictorial threads here (and my own experience) make this crystal clear.
I found another report of pennzoil platinum UOA having a lower viscosity/higher shear on a tracked S2000. This particular sample has 17 hours of track use and 3300 miles but much smaller particle quantities with 10 PPM lead and 3 ppm copper.
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-under-hood-22/used-oil-anaylsis-track-ap2-s2000-1165157/
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-under-hood-22/used-oil-anaylsis-track-ap2-s2000-1165157/
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Originally Posted by depo26
Hmm, I'd seen it referred to as a cleaning agent. If calcium doesn't clean, what does clean so aggressively in redline?
There's more than one calcium-containing compound that may be found in engine oil, and they may do more than one thing.
Hmm, I'd seen it referred to as a cleaning agent. If calcium doesn't clean, what does clean so aggressively in redline?
There's more than one calcium-containing compound that may be found in engine oil, and they may do more than one thing.
Originally Posted by depo26
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
I think a more suitable oil for this 2.2 is 0w40 Castrol Euro Edge A3/B4.
Thanks, I'll look into it. It's a bit thicker, which isn't optimal for this engine's tight bearing clearances, but I'll have a look at it.
Check your owners manual, should state that 40WT oils are recommended. If you are at the track you'll definitely want the 40WT as its extra insurance with the higher oil temps.
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
I think a more suitable oil for this 2.2 is 0w40 Castrol Euro Edge A3/B4.
Thanks, I'll look into it. It's a bit thicker, which isn't optimal for this engine's tight bearing clearances, but I'll have a look at it.
Check your owners manual, should state that 40WT oils are recommended. If you are at the track you'll definitely want the 40WT as its extra insurance with the higher oil temps.
Originally Posted by thescreensavers
Originally Posted by depo26
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
I think a more suitable oil for this 2.2 is 0w40 Castrol Euro Edge A3/B4.
Thanks, I'll look into it. It's a bit thicker, which isn't optimal for this engine's tight bearing clearances, but I'll have a look at it.
Check your owners manual, should state that 40WT oils are recommended. If you are at the track you'll definitely want the 40WT as its extra insurance with the higher oil temps.
the 2008 (same engine as this 2006) manual i found online allows for up to a 5W-40. i would run a OW-40 as well, Castrol would be an excellent choice. its not super thick like a 40wt Redline, its easily available and cheap, and has excellent manufacturer approvals for harsh operating specs (Porsche A40 for example).
for what its worth, although its not a directly similar engine, I run M1 0W-40 in the K20Z3 in my 2010 Si with great success. piston speeds in the K20 are a bit less (4,797 fps vs your F22's 5,059 fps) but it loves the 40 weight year round, and its driven hard over a 6 to 8k mile OCI on honda filters. the US manual recommends a 30 but all other markets allow for a 40, so i went for the thicker choice for my hot climate and driving habits.
Originally Posted by depo26
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
I think a more suitable oil for this 2.2 is 0w40 Castrol Euro Edge A3/B4.
Thanks, I'll look into it. It's a bit thicker, which isn't optimal for this engine's tight bearing clearances, but I'll have a look at it.
Check your owners manual, should state that 40WT oils are recommended. If you are at the track you'll definitely want the 40WT as its extra insurance with the higher oil temps.
the 2008 (same engine as this 2006) manual i found online allows for up to a 5W-40. i would run a OW-40 as well, Castrol would be an excellent choice. its not super thick like a 40wt Redline, its easily available and cheap, and has excellent manufacturer approvals for harsh operating specs (Porsche A40 for example).
for what its worth, although its not a directly similar engine, I run M1 0W-40 in the K20Z3 in my 2010 Si with great success. piston speeds in the K20 are a bit less (4,797 fps vs your F22's 5,059 fps) but it loves the 40 weight year round, and its driven hard over a 6 to 8k mile OCI on honda filters. the US manual recommends a 30 but all other markets allow for a 40, so i went for the thicker choice for my hot climate and driving habits.
I would stick to Red Line 10W-30. Consistency is good, you're looking for a trend. If there is something wrong with the car, it's not the oil; any modern oil should do well for you, an Red Line is more than up to the task.
(I run Red Line 10W-30 in all my track cars, FWIW.)
(I run Red Line 10W-30 in all my track cars, FWIW.)
Originally Posted by depo26
I changed the oil over the weekend to PP 10w-30. First, impression, the car started easier and quieted down somewhat. Redline is definitely a lot thicker than the same weight PP. I don't think i'd use redline again unless I'm going for a hard track weekend. My impression was the engine was quieter and smoother, though it's also warmer out.
Look at the HTHS viscosity
Red Line 5W-20 is a better match for PP 10W-30.
I changed the oil over the weekend to PP 10w-30. First, impression, the car started easier and quieted down somewhat. Redline is definitely a lot thicker than the same weight PP. I don't think i'd use redline again unless I'm going for a hard track weekend. My impression was the engine was quieter and smoother, though it's also warmer out.
Look at the HTHS viscosity
Red Line 5W-20 is a better match for PP 10W-30.
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