Any opinions on whether this stuff actually does anything before I buy a bottle? Thanks!
Red Line Water Wetter
- Thread starter caveatipse
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I'm sure it works, but the effect is not really significant for a regular street car. It can also cause little oily bubbles at the top of your coolant tank, which is really disconcerting (it looks like engine oil). Not worth the trouble IMO, except maybe for a race car.
Ok thanks. Now I am worried about these "little oily bubbles" lol. What causes those? And are they harmful?
The concept of water wetter is antithetical to what you want in an engine cooling system for a street driven family car.
You want to keep the heat in, not speed it's dissipation into the environment.
If you've got a race engine, a street/stripper or a weekend rock crawler then it may be a good thing.
Economical commute...no thanks.
You want to keep the heat in, not speed it's dissipation into the environment.
If you've got a race engine, a street/stripper or a weekend rock crawler then it may be a good thing.
Economical commute...no thanks.
Originally Posted By: caveatipse
Ok thanks. Now I am worried about these "little oily bubbles" lol. What causes those? And are they harmful?
Not sure what causes them, but apparently they are not harmful. The problem is that it gives the appearance of a blown head gasket (oil in the coolant).
Ok thanks. Now I am worried about these "little oily bubbles" lol. What causes those? And are they harmful?
Not sure what causes them, but apparently they are not harmful. The problem is that it gives the appearance of a blown head gasket (oil in the coolant).
It is used for racing, since coolant is usually not allowed. I used to use it in my Formula Ford and it worked with straight water pretty well.
Not really much for street cars.
Not really much for street cars.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
The concept of water wetter is antithetical to what you want in an engine cooling system for a street driven family car.
You want to keep the heat in, not speed it's dissipation into the environment.
If you've got a race engine, a street/stripper or a weekend rock crawler then it may be a good thing.
Economical commute...no thanks.
Not sure I understand. Why do you want to keep the heat in?
The concept of water wetter is antithetical to what you want in an engine cooling system for a street driven family car.
You want to keep the heat in, not speed it's dissipation into the environment.
If you've got a race engine, a street/stripper or a weekend rock crawler then it may be a good thing.
Economical commute...no thanks.
Not sure I understand. Why do you want to keep the heat in?
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
I'm sure it works, but the effect is not really significant for a regular street car. It can also cause little oily bubbles at the top of your coolant tank, which is really disconcerting (it looks like engine oil). Not worth the trouble IMO, except maybe for a race car.
Interesting, I have never seen or heard of it doing that.
I'm sure it works, but the effect is not really significant for a regular street car. It can also cause little oily bubbles at the top of your coolant tank, which is really disconcerting (it looks like engine oil). Not worth the trouble IMO, except maybe for a race car.
Interesting, I have never seen or heard of it doing that.
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Maybe it's only with certain kinds of coolant?
Maybe, just because I have never seen it doesn't mean it hasn't happened. I just have never heard of it.
Maybe it's only with certain kinds of coolant?
Maybe, just because I have never seen it doesn't mean it hasn't happened. I just have never heard of it.
Originally Posted By: caveatipse
Not sure I understand. Why do you want to keep the heat in?
Because a street car with all the pollution controls and such works better in a narrow range of temperature and that means a little on the warm side. That is why many cars run 195 degree thermostats.
I could see using it in racing or if you towed alot.
Not sure I understand. Why do you want to keep the heat in?
Because a street car with all the pollution controls and such works better in a narrow range of temperature and that means a little on the warm side. That is why many cars run 195 degree thermostats.
I could see using it in racing or if you towed alot.
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Your thermostat controls the water temperature, so you would see no difference.
the Water Wetter is supposed to reduce the differential between the metal temps and water temps, i.e. the metal runs cooler, increasing heat flow between the combustion chamber and the coolant.
the Water Wetter is supposed to reduce the differential between the metal temps and water temps, i.e. the metal runs cooler, increasing heat flow between the combustion chamber and the coolant.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Your thermostat controls the water temperature, so you would see no difference.
the Water Wetter is supposed to reduce the differential between the metal temps and water temps, i.e. the metal runs cooler, increasing heat flow between the combustion chamber and the coolant.
Excellent point, and well said.
Your thermostat controls the water temperature, so you would see no difference.
the Water Wetter is supposed to reduce the differential between the metal temps and water temps, i.e. the metal runs cooler, increasing heat flow between the combustion chamber and the coolant.
Excellent point, and well said.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: caveatipse
Not sure I understand. Why do you want to keep the heat in?
Because you paid for the heat when you filled the fuel tank up.
I really do not understand. I paid for the heat of combustion in the cylinders to provide thrust, but not for the collateral hearing of the rest of the engine parts of which there is no advantage in heating, right?
Originally Posted By: caveatipse
Not sure I understand. Why do you want to keep the heat in?
Because you paid for the heat when you filled the fuel tank up.
I really do not understand. I paid for the heat of combustion in the cylinders to provide thrust, but not for the collateral hearing of the rest of the engine parts of which there is no advantage in heating, right?
Its more efficient to run in the hotter ranges. Thats why you see 195* thermostats. And they are not even full open till about 210* or so. The car is designed to run in these temperature ranges.
I'm sure that if this stuff worked well enough to improve heat dissipation, OE coolants would have it, just so that the OE can use cheaper radiators and cooling fans.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
The concept of water wetter is antithetical to what you want in an engine cooling system for a street driven family car.
You want to keep the heat in, not speed it's dissipation into the environment.
Wait, wait, wait.... You're over-simplifying.
YES you want to REGULATE the heat dissipation to the environment in order to maximize thermal efficiency. But you DO want to move that heat FROM THE METAL TO THE COOLANT as efficiently as possible and THEN let the cooling system design regulate how fast the heat is dissipated to the environment. I'm not arguing in favor of water-wetter necessarily, but its goal is not at all the antithesis of what you want. Without perfect transfer of heat from metal to coolant, you get localized microboiling and hot-spots, which do two bad things: 1) hot spots can cause detonation, forcing the engine managment system to retard ignition timing and damage efficiency, and 2) microboiling can erode metal from the inside of the cooling jackets.
Once you get the heat out of the metal and into the coolant, the engine can be made MORE efficient by letting the cooling system do things like recirculate most of the hot water back to the block via the thermostat bypass system and only divert a small amount to the radiator, which has the benefit of heating up the lower part of the engine block which isn't exposed directly to the hottest combustion process, thereby making the entire engine structure a more uniform temperature than if you didn't get the heat out of the cylinder head metal and into the coolant effectively. This relieves stresses in the block, heads, and rotating assembly, closes up clearances between cylinder and piston skirt, and reduces further thermal loss from the combustion chamber as the piston moves away from TDC.
The closer you can get to ideal heat transfer from metal to coolant, the hotter you can make the AVERAGE temperature of the coolant in the whole system, because you are no longer having to over-cool most of the system in order to protect a few hot-spots that aren't getting properly cooled.
The concept of water wetter is antithetical to what you want in an engine cooling system for a street driven family car.
You want to keep the heat in, not speed it's dissipation into the environment.
Wait, wait, wait.... You're over-simplifying.
YES you want to REGULATE the heat dissipation to the environment in order to maximize thermal efficiency. But you DO want to move that heat FROM THE METAL TO THE COOLANT as efficiently as possible and THEN let the cooling system design regulate how fast the heat is dissipated to the environment. I'm not arguing in favor of water-wetter necessarily, but its goal is not at all the antithesis of what you want. Without perfect transfer of heat from metal to coolant, you get localized microboiling and hot-spots, which do two bad things: 1) hot spots can cause detonation, forcing the engine managment system to retard ignition timing and damage efficiency, and 2) microboiling can erode metal from the inside of the cooling jackets.
Once you get the heat out of the metal and into the coolant, the engine can be made MORE efficient by letting the cooling system do things like recirculate most of the hot water back to the block via the thermostat bypass system and only divert a small amount to the radiator, which has the benefit of heating up the lower part of the engine block which isn't exposed directly to the hottest combustion process, thereby making the entire engine structure a more uniform temperature than if you didn't get the heat out of the cylinder head metal and into the coolant effectively. This relieves stresses in the block, heads, and rotating assembly, closes up clearances between cylinder and piston skirt, and reduces further thermal loss from the combustion chamber as the piston moves away from TDC.
The closer you can get to ideal heat transfer from metal to coolant, the hotter you can make the AVERAGE temperature of the coolant in the whole system, because you are no longer having to over-cool most of the system in order to protect a few hot-spots that aren't getting properly cooled.
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