Red Line D4 ATF destroys blocker rings? What?

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Unleashedbeast

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Last week I sent an email to Tremec transmissions to inquire about using Red Line D4 ATF in my T3650 5 speed transmission in my 2008 Mustang GT. This was his reply

"We recommend the Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF. Some of the Redline products use additives that can attack the blocker ring on the synchronizers thus causing a premature failure."

This really confused me. I used Red Line D4 in my T56 6 speed religiously and never had any failures. It even made the shifts smoother and easier vs. the OEM fluid.

I need advice guys, and also information to know what additives will attack blocker rings in a manual transmission.
 
Originally Posted By: Unleashedbeast
Last week I sent an email to Tremec transmissions to inquire about using Red Line D4 ATF in my T3650 5 speed transmission in my 2008 Mustang GT. This was his reply

"We recommend the Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF. Some of the Redline products use additives that can attack the blocker ring on the synchronizers thus causing a premature failure."

This really confused me. I used Red Line D4 in my T56 6 speed religiously and never had any failures. It even made the shifts smoother and easier vs. the OEM fluid.

I need advice guys, and also information to know what additives will attack blocker rings in a manual transmission.





I would give Dave at Redline a call and see what he says. JMO
 
Originally Posted By: SLCraig
Strange. I use Redline in my Maxima's 6 speed and it's working flawless. Mind you, it's GL4 fluid.


Do you use MT90 or ATF?
 
Originally Posted By: Unleashedbeast
Originally Posted By: c3po
I would give Dave at Redline a call and see what he says. JMO


I sent him an email, and I eagerly await his reply.


See what he says 1st, I have spoken with the guy on the phone, he is a great guy to talk with, maybe give him a quick call on the phone, he may still be in.
 
Originally Posted By: Unleashedbeast
Some of the Redline products use additives that can attack the blocker ring on the synchronizers thus causing a premature failure."

This sounds eerily like an old wife's tale I read a while ago, which was debunked (turned out the wrong product was being used or something). Can't be sure though...
 
Sounds a bit vague.
What "Redline product" and what additive.
You only care about the Redline product that is specified for your application.
I would be more understanding if the person told you that they had extensively tested Mobil 1 ATF in their unit and would stand behind their product with that in it......and that they had not tested any Redline product......and could not comment on it.
What special material(s) are they using in their blocker rings?
 
About as realistic as Currie and Detroit claiming synthetic gear oils ruin their rear ends, but no one else's.
 
Redline D4 is just a general DexronIII replacement and does not contain any reactive chemistry that I am aware that would cause any MT problems.

Possibly the person on the other end saw or heard "gear oil" and was thinking Differential lube.
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Possibly the person on the other end saw or heard "gear oil" and was thinking Differential lube.


Even if that's what they thought, what would be the problem with MTL or MT90 other than viscosity?
 
Some Redline products does not mean all Redline products.

Friction modifiers for brass /steel synchros are not the best for paper /carbon fiber synchros.

The D4 should be OK.
 
Here is a link to the PDF of the fluid the Ford dealer uses in all T3650 transmissions, and what they listed on the invoice after the rebuild @ 30,000 miles.

XT 5 QM Ford Mercon V

Tremec insists on Mobil 1 Syn ATF. Maybe I'm just splitting hairs here, but I still recall how well my T56 shifted with Red Line D4.
 
Based on posts I've seen in other forums M1 synthetic ATF is Tremec's standard response to queries on the use of other transmission fluids because it is the only synthetic fluid they have tested in their transmissions. I've seen the same response to queries on the use of Pennzoil Synchromesh, RP Synchromax, and other fluids that people have used without incident.
 
Originally Posted By: Saleen0679
Based on posts I've seen in other forums M1 synthetic ATF is Tremec's standard response to queries on the use of other transmission fluids because it is the only synthetic fluid they have tested in their transmissions. I've seen the same response to queries on the use of Pennzoil Synchromesh, RP Synchromax, and other fluids that people have used without incident.

Maybe, but that doesn't make sense. If they have not tested the Redline fluid, how could they come up with a specific reason not to use it. I know Redline is a holy grail around here, but to disregard a transmission builder on the fluid is quite risky.
 
Got a reply from Dave at Red Line, and he confirmed that D4 was A OK for the T3650. This is his quoted reply.

"Thank you for contacting Red Line Oil, in your transmission I would recommend the D4ATF, definitely suitable for use in your T3650 transmission and not harmful for your blocker ring adhesives. I am unsure what issues Tremec has experienced with which products, though not with the D4ATF, I am not aware of specific issues with any of our products and fiber blocker rings or the adhesives. We make a number of products so hard to know which one or if it was even related to our product.

Regards, Dave
Red Line Oil"

I will be using this fluid as I did in my T56.

Rob at Tremec verified that the T3650 has carbon fiber blocker rings, not paper lined. That's a big plus!
 
Originally Posted By: Unleashedbeast
Got a reply from Dave at Red Line, and he confirmed that D4 was A OK for the T3650. This is his quoted reply.

"Thank you for contacting Red Line Oil, in your transmission I would recommend the D4ATF, definitely suitable for use in your T3650 transmission and not harmful for your blocker ring adhesives. I am unsure what issues Tremec has experienced with which products, though not with the D4ATF, I am not aware of specific issues with any of our products and fiber blocker rings or the adhesives. We make a number of products so hard to know which one or if it was even related to our product.

Regards, Dave
Red Line Oil"

I will be using this fluid as I did in my T56.

Rob at Tremec verified that the T3650 has carbon fiber blocker rings, not paper lined. That's a big plus!


I have NEVER heard of a problem with synthetic ATFs/MTLs in any Tremec gearbox which used cf blocker rings.
It was ONLY in the cellulose lined blockers (like in MY T56, but not the latter LS1 f bodies, nor the Vette, Viper, or Terminator T56es) that there were supposedly potential problems.

That being said, Sam Strano has used D4 in his '99 Z28 for almost 200K miles of autocross, open tracking, and street driving in his "paper" blocker ring T56, with NO problems or ill effects whatsoever!! (As have MANY others!)

I even decided to try the RL MTL in mine, and so far it's A OK.
I will probably switch to the D4 for it's slightly lower cSt in the winter/cold temps though.

Even though many on here swear by it, the ONLY fluid that ever gave me any trouble in this gearbox was the RP Synchromax.
It ground like an old, non-synchro utility truck with that stuff, on EVERY shift, even in the warm/hot weather!!
crazy2.gif
 
You can see from my sig. how much faith I have comments from these phone techs.

RL D4 FTW, best transmission fluid I have used in either the 4R70W, the T45 or Ford power steering.
 
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
About as realistic as Currie and Detroit claiming synthetic gear oils ruin their rear ends, but no one else's.


You mean their diffs, right?

I WISH I knew for SURE that my Eaton cf clutchpack Posi would work just as well (concerning bias/'lockup') with synthetic as with the dino they claim you MUST use!
(And YES, it IS funny (and suspect) how sooo many of the Nippon tuner cf clutchpack units all but demand a good synthetic, i.e.; KAAZ, Carbonetics, etc.
21.gif
)

I am soooo itching to put RL, Motul, or Amsoil Severe Gear 75W-110 in the pumpkin!!
wink.gif
 
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