Red Line 5w-30 + 5w-40 7853mi 2003 BMW 330Ci

[shanneba]

Latest UOA from my 2003 330Ci.
This was a mix of 6 quarts Red Line 5w-30 and 1 quart 5w-40 (old formula with moly).

Changed with 6 quarts of Red Line 5w-30 and one quart of the new formula 5w-40 without moly.

One track day at Barber Motorsports Park in October. Added a half quart at the track, was still a little above full at the change.

Blackstone comments:
Copper showed up again and we almost unhighlighted it this time, but held off because it's still a
mystery that may be solved. If you look back at the history not on this page, you can see copper had been
reading below average, but it suddenly jumped up in June of 2009 and has stayed high since. All other
wear continues to look great, so we don't think copper is a major issue, but is something we'll continue to
watch. Silicon increased but that's due to the oil type and not a concern. The high viscosity and trace of
fuel aren't issues either and the TBN was ok.

Code:


2003 BMW 330 Ci 2003



Miles on oil 5011 5000 4300 5958 4514 5347 5017 3839 7,250 5,100 7786 7400 5643 8119 7853

Total miles 21130 26100 31407 37365 41879 47226 52245 56084 63,334 68,400 71120 78494 84137 92256 100109

Date 5/17/05 10/17/05 3/31/06 6/19/06 3/05/07 6/16/07 3/29/08 9/18/08 10/18/08 6/04/09 6/14/09 12/13/09 8/17/10 4/12/11 11/7/11

Make up oil 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.5 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.5

Oil Brand BMW Castrol Castrol BMW Castrol Castrol Castrol Castrol R Line R Line R Line R Line R Line R Line Red Line

Weight 5w-30 0w-30 Mix 0w-30 Gold 5w-30 0w-30 Grn 0w-30 grn 0w-30 0w-30 5w-40 5w-40 5w-40 5w-40 5w-40 5w-40 5w-30+40



Filter BMW Mann BMW BMW Mann Mann Mann Mann Mann Mann Mann Mann Mann Mann Mann



ALUMINUM 4 2 2 2 2 2 4 2 2 4 2 3 3 5 4

CHROMIUM 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

IRON 9 7 6 4 8 6 11 9 7 7 9 8 7 10 13

COPPER 28 22 15 18 22 8 15 9 5 17 21 15 17 19 20

LEAD 2 2 2 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 1 4 1 1 0

TIN 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 2 0

MOLYBDENUM 124 19 4 104 16 4 3 2 3 149 207 33 14 9 584

NICKEL 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 1

MANGANESE 3 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 3 2 1 1 3

SILVER 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

TITANIUM 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

POTASSIUM 9 1 6 1 2 0 8 3 2 3 5 2 4 5 4

BORON 38 9 3 21 4 2 3 2 1 4 5 2 3 3 42

SILICON 5 3 3 3 3 2 4 3 4 6 7 5 4 4 13

SODIUM 2 4 3 5 3 3 4 2 3 9 12 7 5 13 14

CALCIUM 3446 2125 1704 2463 2702 2985 1864 1891 2452 2142 2574 2530 2677 2388 2657

MAGNESIUM 18 311 455 83 129 147 448 551 86 30 36 17 16 14 10

PHOSPHORUS 853 748 781 662 737 782 872 885 988 1032 1134 1076 1182 985 1189

ZINC 1050 889 964 847 878 1001 1115 1087 1282 1228 1446 1345 1363 1056 1371

BARIUM 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0



SUS @ 210F 65.6 62.5 63.2 64.1 63.8 65.8 64.2 65.5 73.9 78.2 78.4 77.6 75.7 78.6 68.4

cSt @ 100C 11.76 10.91 11.11 11.35 11.27 11.82 11.38 11.75 13.97 15.08 15.11 14.92 14.43 15.16 12.53

Flashpoint F 375 375 325 415 360 395 380 400 440 385 410 420 410 390 385

Fuel %
Antifreeze % 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0 0 0

Water % 0.0 0.0 tr 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0 0 0

Insolubles % 0.3 0.3 0.2 0.3 0.2 0.2 0.2 0.3 0.3 0.3 0.3 0.3 0.3 0.3 0.3

TBN 1.8 4.0 4.7 3.2 2.9 2.6 2.9 4.9 4.0 1.7 1.3 2.7 3.2 2.5 1.9

 

[Quattro Pete]

So, any clues on what's causing the elevated (sort of) copper?

FYI, my last sample at 10K miles showed only 5 ppm of copper, but 20 ppm of lead. I suspect this may have come from a fuel additive I may have used.

 

[JAG]

That is a lot of data! It would be neat for a statistics guru to take all that data and search for what correlates fairly well to the copper concentrations. I can't tell just by looking at the data.

 

[shanneba]

I really don't know where the copper is coming from, I always wondered if it was from something in the VANOS.

 

[chubbs1]

Moly is over-rated.

 

[jaj]

The results are very good and the trends are in the right direction - you're getting the same kind of metals levels at 8,000 miles now that you used to get at 5,000 miles. It looks like the engine is doing fine, although TBN suggests you're about at the limit on OCI distance.

 

[Merkava_4]

I'm thinking you should go the whole 7 quarts with 5W-40. Forget about 5W-30.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
I'm thinking you should go the whole 7 quarts with 5W-40. Forget about 5W-30.

Redline 5w-30 is not your run of the mill energy conserving weak sauce 5w-30. It has an HT/HS of 3.8 cP - plenty much for his application.

 

[shanneba]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
I'm thinking you should go the whole 7 quarts with 5W-40. Forget about 5W-30.


I did several runs with just 5w-40, results were about the same.

I will say the 5w-30 ran about 15-20 degrees cooler oil temp than the 5w-40, was a little surprising to me. (may have been the moly?) The oil pressure was about the same, I expected a little less like I had with the BMW/Castrol 0/5w-30. I didn't see any improvement in gas mileage, I did do most of this run on my summer tires, they are 40mm wider than what I ran the last few OCIs with, that may have offset any minimal fuel mileage increase

Might try the Red Line 0w-40 next time.......or go with all 5w-30.

 

[fdcg27]

Oil cooler?
Although why there seems to be so much variation in copper I have no idea.
This engine does appear to do well on GC.

 

[shanneba]

No oil cooler, I did add the oil temp and pressure gauges/senders but I think that was before the increase in copper reappeared.

 

[gpshumway]

I too got an elevated copper reading from a run of Redline 5w30 in my Subaru WRX. I'll see if I have time to post it soon.

Could be something in the add pack?

 

[TheRealJohnV]

I'm seeing high-ish copper in my '03 BMW 330i as well. I've been running Amsoil 5w40 "Euro" oil in mine with a 7,500 mile OCI. I just bought the car last year so I only have two changes on it.

My oil reports look nearly identical to yours in terms of wear metals, even given the longer OCI. Copper is hovering right around 20ppm.

Nothing else is high so I'm not worrying about it for now.

 

[nleksan]

For what it's worth, my 2000 328Ci typically shows 6-8ppm copper with Royal Purple 5w30/40 but it doubles to 12-15ppm with Redline 5w30/40. The car IS supercharged and running 12psi boost with stock CR (ESS TSE2+ Lysholm Twin-Screw, Intercooled). Although I have replaced a lot of parts inside the engine (Schrick cams, Carillo rods, titanium valve springs/seats and 2/4mm wider I/E valves, higher-strength headgasket, "Extrudehoned" and Swain Tech coated Intake Manifold, Dinan throttlebody, etc), so I dont know how much of it is related to newer parts breaking-in...

 

[shpankey]

Did Red Line change their formula around that time by chance?

 

[Izb]

Redline 5W-30 has 850ppm of Moly, 5W-40 has 0ppm of Moly.
Different formula.
API SL/SM/SN needs 200ppm of MOLY maximum because of...

 

[boxcartommie22]

red line 5w 40 has 100 ppm moly..and its a diesel oil ratings cj-1.

 

[shanneba]

The Red Line 5w-40 I had came from two vendors, one sent me 5 quarts of the "old" formula that still had the hi moly. I also bought 2 cases of the new formula that did not have any moly.
I did a VOA of the new formula before I started using it. It is posted on the VOA forum.

The 5w-40 UOAs with moly readings of 147 and 207 are the same run of oil, one quart of the original fill was the old formula, with 6 quarts of the new no moly formula, the 207 moly UOA is the same oil with an additional half quart of the old formula added.