Yeah, I spoke to my mechanic, he said most likely it's the bearings. Once the aluminum layer is gone and the copper layer is reached, then I should worry about replacing bearings. So, I'll keep an eye out for the copper and aluminum levels.
Red Line 15W50, 6k mi OCI, 75k mi, Cadillac CTS-V
- Thread starter Emperors6
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: Emperors6
Yeah, I spoke to my mechanic, he said most likely it's the bearings. Once the aluminum layer is gone and the copper layer is reached, then I should worry about replacing bearings. So, I'll keep an eye out for the copper and aluminum levels.
No. OEM bearings in GM LS engines do not have copper in them. They are steel-backed aluminum.
Yeah, I spoke to my mechanic, he said most likely it's the bearings. Once the aluminum layer is gone and the copper layer is reached, then I should worry about replacing bearings. So, I'll keep an eye out for the copper and aluminum levels.
No. OEM bearings in GM LS engines do not have copper in them. They are steel-backed aluminum.
They're bi-metal not tri-metal?
I remember a TSB a few years back advising against thicker oils in LS engines. They advised against anything thicker than 5W30. The newer LT1 and LT4 engines can run M1 15W50 for track events, but not LS engines. I had a gen 2 CTS-V and the owners manual advised against even running a 10W30 oil, let alone 15W50, but my gen 3 CTS-V (LT4) allows you to run it but only for track events. Not for everyday street driving.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Emperors6
I didn't want to use 5W30 this summer since 265F oil temperature at the track makes the 50W oil have the viscosity of a 30W and the 30W to have the viscosity of a 20W. I want to maintain the right viscosity at my operating temperature.
RL 15W50 Hths 5.8 is the way to go, OP.
I didn't want to use 5W30 this summer since 265F oil temperature at the track makes the 50W oil have the viscosity of a 30W and the 30W to have the viscosity of a 20W. I want to maintain the right viscosity at my operating temperature.
RL 15W50 Hths 5.8 is the way to go, OP.
Yeah, I'm not sure if the Al wear numbers are related to 15W50 or just general wear. All I know is that oil consumption was pretty high at the track on 5W30 and also that engine oil temperature thins the 50W to a 30W at the track.
Do you have the TSB number regarding 15W50 use not being recommended at the track for certain LS engines?
I still use RL 5W30 for winter use, when not doing the track.
Do you have the TSB number regarding 15W50 use not being recommended at the track for certain LS engines?
I still use RL 5W30 for winter use, when not doing the track.
I personally don't like Redline oil, but those wear numbers don't look bad for that OCI and track use. I would think that oil is much too viscous for that engine. What oil was used on the 6-6-17 OC?
Originally Posted By: Konstantine
I personally don't like Redline oil, but those wear numbers don't look bad for that OCI and track use. I would think that oil is much too viscous for that engine. What oil was used on the 6-6-17 OC?
That UOA was RL 5W30, post here: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4462495/RedLine_5W30,_6k_mi_OCI,_60k_m
I personally don't like Redline oil, but those wear numbers don't look bad for that OCI and track use. I would think that oil is much too viscous for that engine. What oil was used on the 6-6-17 OC?
That UOA was RL 5W30, post here: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4462495/RedLine_5W30,_6k_mi_OCI,_60k_m
Have you considered going back to the 5W-30?
For the non-track season (winter), yes. For the track, I'm not convinced the additional wear is due to the 15W50 since I had similar iron wear with the 5W30 the year before last summer. The aluminum wear is new though. and I'll see how it goes.
Have you tried 0W-40 on the track?
So the OP's engine is getting well over 100C at the track. Almost to 130C. It's supercharged and was tracked a fair bit. I don't think his viscosity choice is bad.
I remember seeing a UOA thread here a while back where the Corvette owner (I think corvette) had high wear metals on red line. Switched to Mobil1 0W40 and instantly lowered the wear numbers. I don't think it's a viscosity issue, maybe a switch in brands could see less wear metals.
But again, 18 hours track use is a decent amount! Can't expect similar wear numbers to a non tracked UOA.
OP: If you do switch brands, maybe stick with 15W50 just to see if it's the add package of the brand that affects wear numbers. If you switch brands and change viscosity, no one will ever know for sure.
I remember seeing a UOA thread here a while back where the Corvette owner (I think corvette) had high wear metals on red line. Switched to Mobil1 0W40 and instantly lowered the wear numbers. I don't think it's a viscosity issue, maybe a switch in brands could see less wear metals.
But again, 18 hours track use is a decent amount! Can't expect similar wear numbers to a non tracked UOA.
OP: If you do switch brands, maybe stick with 15W50 just to see if it's the add package of the brand that affects wear numbers. If you switch brands and change viscosity, no one will ever know for sure.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: 4WD
Ok, I asked about the jets sorta follow up to BrocL’s comments …
there are many things said here regarding flow at the macro level … PDP and “getting to the top” etc … but a thick oil is going to effect both the volume and pattern (coverage) from a nozzle …
I also think a top shelf 40 is a good next step if the metals are indeed from an aluminum piston in a cast iron sleeve …
Squirter volume flow rate is density/pressure related.
Drop the pressure, drop the flow rate...
"pattern" is Reynolds number...density x velocity x diameter/ viscosity
velocity is related again to the function of volume, so the pattern is related to
pressurex diameter / viscosity.
So in order to have
a) maximum squirter flow; and
b) the "pattern" that arises from "a"
you need pressure...
Going thinner to close the relief valve at high temp/rev operation as some (not you) posit is going the wrong direction.
Ok, I asked about the jets sorta follow up to BrocL’s comments …
there are many things said here regarding flow at the macro level … PDP and “getting to the top” etc … but a thick oil is going to effect both the volume and pattern (coverage) from a nozzle …
I also think a top shelf 40 is a good next step if the metals are indeed from an aluminum piston in a cast iron sleeve …
Squirter volume flow rate is density/pressure related.
Drop the pressure, drop the flow rate...
"pattern" is Reynolds number...density x velocity x diameter/ viscosity
velocity is related again to the function of volume, so the pattern is related to
pressurex diameter / viscosity.
So in order to have
a) maximum squirter flow; and
b) the "pattern" that arises from "a"
you need pressure...
Going thinner to close the relief valve at high temp/rev operation as some (not you) posit is going the wrong direction.
I didn't try the RL or M1 0W40 since its HTHS is almost the same as RL 5W30 (it's a very heavy 30W). I wanted the highest HTHS that would make reasonable sense due to lateral loads on the track possibly causing oil starvation.
I have the same car. I haven't done any UOAs yet. BUT there was a guy on here with a Z06 that was running Red Line and when he switched to Mobil 1 0W40 his wear numbers went down considerably. I think turned into a 40 page thread on here.
I'll just throw this out here, I know some who mix(50/50) M1 0/50 race oil and 0/20 AFE in their cars.
All have received good UOA's with this mix. The cars range from '03 400hp Subaru to 720 hp '13 ZO6
The race oil is not cheap or easy to get, and the first time I heard of this mix was right here more than 6 years ago.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2334500/M1_Special_Mix#Post2334500
I did use this mix once in my S2000 but I had a aneurysm(not really) and dumped the used oil in my 10 gal. used oil container, so I couldn't get a UOA.
I now run a mix of M1 0/40fs and 20/50 v-twin in my S.
If I had a CTS-V, I'd ues the M1 race oil-0/20 and see what the numbers were.
ROD
All have received good UOA's with this mix. The cars range from '03 400hp Subaru to 720 hp '13 ZO6
The race oil is not cheap or easy to get, and the first time I heard of this mix was right here more than 6 years ago.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2334500/M1_Special_Mix#Post2334500
I did use this mix once in my S2000 but I had a aneurysm(not really) and dumped the used oil in my 10 gal. used oil container, so I couldn't get a UOA.
I now run a mix of M1 0/40fs and 20/50 v-twin in my S.
If I had a CTS-V, I'd ues the M1 race oil-0/20 and see what the numbers were.
ROD
Originally Posted By: KL31
18 hours track use is a decent amount! Can't expect similar wear numbers to a non tracked UOA.
Right? Not like it's puttering grocery-getter duty.
18 hours track use is a decent amount! Can't expect similar wear numbers to a non tracked UOA.
Right? Not like it's puttering grocery-getter duty.
I'll see how the wear numbers are for non track use during winter so I can get a better idea of what might be the original cause of the high wear. What is the motivation for mixing all these oils and are these repeatable results? I'm all for doing something if there's data to back it up. Anyways, in the end I'm not too worried if the engine wears too quickly, I'll just get it rebuilt when the time comes.
- Status
Similar threads
