red light cameras

[kreigle]

quote:

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Originally posted by brianl703:
I'm amazed--in 20 years I would think that traffic light controller has been replaced at least once, and the problem fixed at that time.

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All traffic on that road gets shortchanged at the light in favor of the state highway traffic, which gets almost twice as long a light cycle.

 

[brianl703]

quote:

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Originally posted by kreigle:
All traffic on that road gets shortchanged at the light in favor of the state highway traffic, which gets almost twice as long a light cycle.

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It's not doing the state highway traffic any favors to shortchange the traffic on the side street. If there are (say) 12 cars waiting to make a left and only 3 get through each time, it'll take 4 cycles of the light for those 12 cars to get through the intersection.

Each time a light cycles, the time spent by the light in yellow and all-red clearance phases is time during which the intersection is not being utilized at full capacity, as is the time between when the light turns green and the traffic starts moving again.

If the light is traffic-actuated, it would be more efficient for the light to be long enough to clear out ALL of the traffic on the side street so that at the next change of the light, it may be able to skip that change due to there not being any traffic waiting (although traffic volumes may not be light enough on the side street to allow this). Since it's traffic-actuated, it can terminate the left-turn phase when all of the left-turn traffic has gone.

Also, with left turns, I've noticed that the first 4-5 cars generally go through the left turn slower than the cars that follow them, which would be another reason why longer left-turn phases are more efficient.

As far as the mall goes, it sounds like that intersection needs to be upgraded to longer and/or dual left-turn lanes.

 

[kreigle]

quote:

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As far as the mall goes, it sounds like that intersection needs to be upgraded to longer and/or dual left-turn lanes. [/QB]

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re:dual turn lanes - the road that goes beside the mall is a 2-lane road - 1 lane each direction with stores on each side of the intersection - they wo't be widening it to accomodate any 2-lane turn traffic as there is no place to put the second lane without taking the parking lots from the stores.

re: longer light cycle - the cycle is already traffic actuated - the more cars go under it the longer it stays green - to a point. It is green longer with 10 cars than it is with 5. Anyway, like a stated above, during rush traffic, the straight lanes associated with this turn already have their green for at least a minute before the light changes on the other side. You might as well turn this into a 3-way traffic light with green for north so the left-lane traffic can move; then green south (with north red), then finally the side street. Northbound traffic already gets 2 minutes more green than southbound and you want to give them 5 more? Don't the southbound people deserve a green light also?????

There are 3 other lights north of this light that also feed into the mall, and traffic already backs up through all 3 of these lights as a result of this long left turn signal, getting people stuck when their light changes back to red before this light can turn green.

[ March 09, 2005, 05:04 PM: Message edited by: kreigle ]

 

[kreigle]

quote:

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Originally posted by kreigle:
re:dual turn lanes - the road that goes beside the mall is a 2-lane road - 1 lane each direction with stores on each side of the intersection - they wo't be widening it to accomodate any 2-lane turn traffic as there is no place to put the second lane without taking the parking lots from the stores.

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I forgot to mention that this light is also about 50yards north of an overpass, so there is no room for a second turn lane without tearing down and building a completely new overpass to accomodate a new road.
http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?searchtype=address&country=US&addtohistory=&location=38pzSyNj9IKqC%2fsv4j9N7ru1Q0945k6egj9j4AfhrH0GzEKqsv7ATSoBhcepz%2bqYf%2bwd6lx40NklPASpNJQb 0WKJY3Sq12dxGvkmaCvN0OXDP5wLAbJzOnVYHofSqOpoRX97%2bVDX87U%3d This map shows the area in question. There are lights on Rt 24 at Pleasant Valley, York Galleria, Whiteford Road, and the Rt 30 interchange south of the overpass. The left turn in question is the northbound Rt 24 turning onto Whiteford.

[ March 09, 2005, 05:36 PM: Message edited by: kreigle ]

 

[brianl703]

There are three additional lights north of this one that feed the mall which are apparently not being fully utilized by mall traffic, then maybe the best solution is to close this intersection to left turn traffic and force it to go further north to get into the mall.

Although building a shopping mall on a 2-lane highway is not exactly the best example of urban planning I've ever seen.

 

[kreigle]

quote:

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Originally posted by brianl703:
There are three additional lights north of this one that feed the mall which are apparently not being fully utilized by mall traffic, then maybe the best solution is to close this intersection to left turn traffic and force it to go further north to get into the mall.

Although building a shopping mall on a 2-lane highway is not exactly the best example of urban planning I've ever seen.

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I don't think that would be a likely solution as Whiteford road is not just a feeder road for the mall. The South side of Whiteford is 2 strip malls and 2 restaurants. Closing any of the mall entrances (2 on Whitefor, 1 on 24, and 4 on Pleasant Vally) would only increase traffic on 24 as people try do drive around to wone of the other entrances. If you follow it west, it connects to Memory Lane, which runs back into town and is also bumper-to-bumper for its 2 mile stretch as it also has entrances into 3 or 4 other shopping centers. Closing the left turn onto Whiteford would shut everyone going north off from the shopping centers on the south side of Whitefor and the connection to downtown.

York just plain has too much traffic for its infrastructure to handle due to uncontrolled sprawl - every month more local farmland is sold to developers with no regard for how the traffic is supposed to be handled. Most of the area is 2-lane roads with 100+ unit housing developments going up all over the place connecting to them and the traffic is virtually bumper to bumper all day as ppl try to get to work, shopping and restaraunts and we get crowds of ppl from MD coming north to avoid their state tax on clothing and food - most of our shopping malls are filled with MD license plates.

 

[brianl703]

That York is having rapid growth and the traffic problems that come with it doesn't surprise me.

It seems like it might be a new suburb of DC.

It'd cost money, but completing the interchange at US30 and Memory lane so that eastbound US30 traffic could exit onto Memory Lane might help.

Or building a connector road and interchange from Whiteford Lane to US30, aligned with the existing mall entrance from Whiteford Lane.

It wouldn't be the first shopping mall with it's own interchange from the adjacent highway.

 

[kreigle]

quote:

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Originally posted by brianl703:
[QB]It'd cost money, but completing the interchange at US30 and Memory lane so that eastbound US30 traffic could exit onto Memory Lane might help.

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Eastbound always could get off at Memory. Westbound either gets off at 24 or the light just past Memory lane.

Anyway, Memory lane is already too backed up for more traffic. Most of the time I try to go out that way it is bumper-to-bumper. Memory Lane is the only entrance (or one of only 2 entrances) to most of the stores in that area an is severely overwhelmed, being only a 2 lane road. Moveing more traffic directly from 30 to Memory would only back up traffic onto 30.


I think the main reason people don't like to enter the mall directly off 24 is that light is also the entrance to township Police station (directly across the street from the mall). In don't know why though, because 24 is still 2 lanes each direction at that point, with a separate (third) lane for turning into the mall. The Whiteford mall entrances are always so backed up as to make them impossible to use. I personally always use the back entrances off the third light and avoid Whiteford altogether.

 

[farrarfan1]

As a law enforcement officer I have followed this post since it started.When it comes to enforcing traffic laws it is a no win situation.Nobody wants 40,000+ people to die in crashes every year but nobody wants aggresive enforcement either.I'm starting my 26th year as a State Trooper, all of which I have spent working the road so I think I've probably heard it all.Every jurisdiction is different when it comes to how fine money is divided up.In Indiana the huge majority of the fine goes to the court. Right now it is around $80 per ticket just for court costs. These are county or city courts so the state doesn't get any of that money. The court costs pay for judges salary, clerks salary, operating expenses etc. A small amount goes into the general fund that supports the retirement fund for teachers. $2.75 of each ticket goes to our training department and can only be used to pay for training, nothing else.So in our case the department sees very little of the money generated by the ticket and what we do get is dedicated to a specific cause.Most of us like this system because that eliminates the argument that we write tickets to make money.A common thing to hear is we should be out catching real criminals. Most criminals don't walk around with a sign on them advertising the fact that they are criminals. However most criminals do drive cars.A lot of traffic stops result in arrests for outstanding warrants, drugs etc. Timothy Mcveigh, the Oklahoma City bomber was arrested by an Oklahoma Highway Patrol trooper that stopped him for speeding and not having a license plate.Not to tell war stories but I have made 2 arrests in my career of homicide suspects that came out of "routine" traffic stops.These where random stops, not great police work on my part.Not all of us are out here eating donuts and trying to hassle people. Some of us really try to make a difference.I will now put away the soapbox.Brian has brought up some excellent points in regards to highway engineering. We try to work with INDOT when a problem arises. Sometimes traffic patterns change or a new store opens or something changes the normal routine and causes a problem that we become aware of. INDOT has always helped us out by sending an engineer to investigate. In most places a private citizen should be able to contact dept of transporttion and register a concern. Just remember the wheels turn slowly when dealing with these things so be patient.As far as the devices to fool the red light cameras, they are like everything else that comes along to defeat radar,laser ,vascar etc.It's your money spend it however you see fit.
A perspective from the other side without hopefully any lecturing.
Dang, I come here to get away from this stuff and talk about oil.Can we talk about oil please?

 

[brianl703]

quote:

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Originally posted by kreigle:
I think the main reason people don't like to enter the mall directly off 24 is that light is also the entrance to township Police station (directly across the street from the mall).

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That could be it. Another possibility is that people aren't thinking about it when they decide to make the first left.

Are there signs alerting traffic on 24 that they can use other mall entrances, such as a sign saying "MALL TRAFFIC USE 2ND LEFT" or "MALL TRAFFIC NEXT THREE LEFTS" or whatever's appropriate? If not I wonder if these might help.