edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
No we are not. Catsrol Edge 0W30 is STILL SL.
Recommended oil for F87 BMW M2 (N55)
- Thread starter roninsoldier83
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edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Have 15qt of that stock, and 6qt of stock older than that, and will use in my BMW this winter.So, I ended up ordering Castrol Edge Euro 0w30 (A3/B4) and when it got here, I inspected the bottles and noticed there is nothing on the label about it being an LL01 certified oil:
^^^I noticed there are certs on the label from VW/Audi and Mercedes, but nothing for BMW.
The Amazon link shows it is LL01 compliant. I've been on Castrol's website and it clearly states their 0w30 Euro A3/B4 formula complies with BMW LL01, but it's not on the bottle. Is this just old stock? If so, any changes to the oil formula to make it LL01 compliant, or did it just get the approval later on down the line?
Probably a better question: would you pour this into your car/M2?
The reason why that stock does not have LL01 is that between 2018 and 2022 BMW dropped 0WXX oils from LL01 and LL04. Then in 2022, with new update, they returned 0WXX oils on approved list. Between dropping and adding again, nothing changed in the formula of that Castrol.
New formula, for US market starting in 2024, has updated base stocks and SP additive package, but one with higher phosphorous content, hence, API SL.
It is at least an SN package but has too much phosphorous to pass as anything higher than SL since it’s a 30 grade.
Copy that, thanks for the information!
I might run this stuff over the winter/spring and when it starts to get hot outside, switch over to one of the aforementioned 5w-40’s.
There is no technical reason to do that. As noted before the approval dictates a minimum HT/HS and grades can overlap. Here a 30-grade is functionally equivalent to a 40-grade with those approvals.
Winter rating is meaningless between an 0W and an 5W unless you are starting the vehicle at temperatures below -30 or so.
Ofcourse there is, serotonin levels remain higher with 0W everytime you start the engine in the cold
Cant afford to ignore placebo here, the cold and darkness has negative effects already,
I suppose most of this is above my understanding of how oils work- admittedly, I haven't put a ton of effort into understanding the science behind all things oil, and I'm grateful that there's a forum full of folks who are willing to share!
A quick Google search tells me that HTHS stands for High Temperature High Shear, which seems to be how well an oil performs under more extreme conditions. If I'm understanding what you're saying, the HTHS rating is going to have the same minimum standards for any of the LL01 approved oils mentioned in this thread, correct?
My thought on changing to one of the 5w40 oils mentioned in this thread (with an LL01 approval) when things get warmer has more to do with my driving style and the potential scenery the car spends time in changing when it gets warm outside. The M2 has a nice set of Michelin Pilot 4S summer tires on it- it'll spend most of the winter in the garage and will only be brought out on exceptionally nice days until things warm up outside. When things get warm, it will be driven more often, including a good bit more canyon time and likely a trip to the dragon next summer. I figured the 40-grade would provide a bit more protection for hard driving on fun/spirited canyon/mountain roads in the summer over a 30-grade; am I mistaken?
I didn't realize that a 0w and 5w were comparable until temps get that low (-30). Good to know! With that knowledge, since the car will be garage kept and only driven on nicer days, I'll likely skip the 0w oils in the future and run a 5w-40 year round, unless there's some reason not to?
If there is no price difference I would choose 0W in Denver. Guessing it gets cold sometimes.
For your M2's usecase other properties are more important though.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Ambient temperature doesn’t have anything to do with oil performance, especially in an engine with such overkill cooling system.
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Nine years you've been here and you had to Google HT/HS ?
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
It gets cold, but nothing dramatic. I run 5W30/40 all year around and spend A LOT of time in the mountains where it does gets super cold.
However, one of the reason why Edge 0W30 is such popular oil is that it is shear stable but also offers superb cold performance.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
You cannot push M2 or any BMW on regular roads that hard where minimum HTHS for LL01 (3.5cP) would not be sufficient, even if cops were not around. Now, if you were tracking it at High Plains Raceway an hour east of Denver, I would say, depends on your oil temperature.
But take into consideration that Mobil1 0W40 HTHS is 3.6cP. Castrol Edge 5W40 is 3.64cP. Edge 0W30 is 3.58cP in bottles you got. There are 5W30 oils like Redline that have HTHS 3.7cP.
BMW F and G generation cars have absolute overkill of oil cooling system. If you had E90 like I do, and track it, that would be different conversation. I ran Mobil1 0W40 at 300f at HPR and ran that oil 5k OCI.
Correct.
I think this makes ~18 posts in those 9 years. I clearly don't spend a lot of time on here, even if I do appreciate the information shared.
This is the problem with online interactions. I openly admit that I've never really looked into the science/details behind oils, I'm asking questions in an attempt to grow my own understanding and I get unnecessary, immature comments like this, rather than posting anything remotely helpful or insightful. I suppose I could have done what most people on the Internet do: Google things and pretend I know what I'm talking about, when I fact I'm clearly no expert and am trying to ask questions of those who have a much greater understanding than I do.
I hope your comment made your day, sir. Happy motoring.
To everyone else, thanks for the oil lesson, I'll try to put it to good use!
To edyvw- I've actually spent quite a bit of time at HPR, as well as at Pikes Peak International Raceway, Pueblo Motorsports Park and La Junta Raceway, just not in this car! This thing is too nice for me to risk putting it into a wall! My E82 128i is currently being prepped to be my track car next season (N52 motors are dirt cheap and plentiful in the event I money shift on track!). I'm planning on building it for NASA TT5. I guess I didn't realize how overbuilt the cooling systems were on these cars- I wish they had a stock oil temp gauge! I just remember the early E90/92 N54/N55 powered cars commonly hitting limp mode due to high oil temps and wanted to be on the safe side with my F87. Thanks for all the info, brother! Maybe I'll see you out at HPR sometime!
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Oh do I have good news for you!
Does your E82 have mpg gauge? If so, it takes with INPA 5min to convert it to oil temperature gauge! I did that on my 328 immediately. If it doesn’t, you can still get used one and replace yours. Then you go agin with INPA into DME and activate oil temperature.
I installed on my N52 oil cooler from 335i. Absolutely no issues with limp mode (that time I ran M1 0W40, at 300f I would constantly go into limp mode). Get yourself oil filter housing from N55 with port for thermostat or box fluid/fluid cooler, thermostat for N55 oil cooler and either used or new oil cooler. I paid on eBay brand new BMW OE oil cooler $200.
Here is my thread about it:
Unfortunately the E82 doesn’t have a mpg gauge, but I do have a full OE oil cooler setup. Full build thread over on GRM:Oh do I have good news for you!
Does your E82 have mpg gauge? If so, it takes with INPA 5min to convert it to oil temperature gauge! I did that on my 328 immediately. If it doesn’t, you can still get used one and replace yours. Then you go agin with INPA into DME and activate oil temperature.
I installed on my N52 oil cooler from 335i. Absolutely no issues with limp mode (that time I ran M1 0W40, at 300f I would constantly go into limp mode). Get yourself oil filter housing from N55 with port for thermostat or box fluid/fluid cooler, thermostat for N55 oil cooler and either used or new oil cooler. I paid on eBay brand new BMW OE oil cooler $200.
Here is my thread about it:
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/f...track-car-turns-into-your-daily/258441/page1/
^^^This car was in ROUGH shape before I replaced just about everything you could think of lol.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Wait, I have seen your project before!
I think replacing whole cluster you could go oil temperature. I think!
I had a question about HTHS values. I think Edge Euro 0w30 is rated at 3.5cP. I couldn’t find the specs listed, but the all-knowing ChatGPT believes the HTHS value for Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5w40 is between 3.7 to 3.9.
At what point does the higher HTHS value of something like PPE 5w40 become “beneficial” per se? Would it be based on overall oil temperature reached? Or more based on a sustained temperature? If one or both, around what temps and/or durations are we talking, in which there would be a noticeable difference in wear characteristics/engine protection?
I’m assuming the biggest drawbacks to a higher HTHS oil would likely be things like cold start and fuel economy? For the record, this isn’t my daily and I don’t give a **** about fuel economy in this car (the M2)- engine health and longevity while being able to have fun on a back road/canyon are my highest priorities in the F87.
EDIT:
For reference: AI suggests the average oil temperature for the F87 BMW M2 with the N55 engine typically ranges between 220°F to 250°F (104°C to 121°C) under normal driving conditions. However, during more spirited driving or track use, the oil temperature can rise to 260°F to 280°F (127°C to 138°C). Since we’re at high elevation (5000+ ft), I’m assuming our temps might be a bit higher than overall averages.
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ChatGPT might have answered the question I was looking for an answer to. The AI machine suggested that for a car that might see 300F temps, I should look for an HTHS rating of 3.7 to 4.0 if possible. For 280F it recommended 3.5 to 3.7. For 260F it recommended 3.5.
I believe there’s some hidden menu to read oil temps in the F87. I’ll play around with the car and see if I can figure out what kind of temps the car gets up to at our high elevation under some type of sustained load. It’s a shame that an M car comes from the factory without an easily visible oil temp gauge- either that or I’ve managed to somehow miss it when scrolling through the menus.
I believe there’s some hidden menu to read oil temps in the F87. I’ll play around with the car and see if I can figure out what kind of temps the car gets up to at our high elevation under some type of sustained load. It’s a shame that an M car comes from the factory without an easily visible oil temp gauge- either that or I’ve managed to somehow miss it when scrolling through the menus.
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There's nothing immature or unnecessary in my question. It seems you got your back up for whatever reason. I would think that someone that has probably lurked here for nine years would have at least a basic understanding of some of the topics discussed even if you post very seldom.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
I recently published peer reviewed paper with co-author who constantly used ChatGPT. I had to correct all his work because it just didn’t make any sense.
PPE 5W40 is around 3.8cP with one PDS having it at 3.88cP. It is GTL based and it will have higher HTHS. Edge had on several PDS 3.58cP and Castrol removed it from PDS eventually. Why? Who knows.
Don’t forget, N55 runs on LL01FE which has HTHS minimum 3cP. Also, there won’t be any energy conserving benefits going HTHS 3.5 compared to 3.8. Once you are at 3.5, that is not considered energy conserving oil. Now, will it theoretically be more efficient? Yes. But there is benefit to that: lower resistance = less loss of power = less heat. Golden rule of lubrication: as thin as possible, as thick as necessary. So, you want to be measured. I mean, I am currently running 300V 5W40 with HTHS 4.1cL, but that is only bcs. I have bunch of this oil. I mean if you want to sleep better at night, PPE 5W40, Motul X-Cess 5W40 GEN2 are stout oils with HTHS around 3.8.
Also, DME in N55 will keep both coolant and oil temperature bit higher at hwy conditions to increase efficiency. In city it will lower it a bit, start pushing it, you will see coolant temperature dropping trying to keep everything cool. So, cooling system will try to do its best when pushing to keep it cool. Maybe you should take it up Pikes Peak, push it hard, see where oil temperature ends. That will definitely push cooling system into overdrive.
