Recent Amsoil ATF formula change?

[Lyondellic]

A recent UOA seems to indicate that Amsoil has increased Boron and Phosphorus in their Universal ATF. TAN and Flash Point appears to be higher as well. Magnesium and Calcium levels, however, appear to be slightly lower.

Any confirmation on a formula change?

 

[Whitewolf]

They wouldn't change the formulation without telling anyone!

 

[Pablo]

Amsoil improves formulas over time, however one or even a couple UOA's are not something to try and figure out if a formula has changed, let alone what that formula is. ESPECIALLY with ATF, because of the mixing in the transmission and so forth.

 

[Whitewolf]

So can we see a VOA from say ranging from say 24 months or so ago to now? I guess that should not be a problem as it's data that would normally be generated as routine QC?

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: Whitewolf
So can we see a VOA from say ranging from say 24 months or so ago to now? I guess that should not be a problem as it's data that would normally be generated as routine QC?


I do not have access to Amsoil QC records.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
Pablo - You said this;
"Amsoil improves formulas over time, however one or even a couple UOA's are not something to try and figure out if a formula has changed, let alone what that formula is. ESPECIALLY with ATF, because of the mixing in the transmission and so forth."

What do you mean by the last sentence?

 

[Pablo]

Doug - what I mean, with ATF in particular, is people drain four quarts (or whatever will drain from a 8+ qt AT system) and add four quarts of new ATF. Maybe repeat (or not) and take a sample for analysis. This certainly is not representative of the virgin added fluid.

 

[Whitewolf]

Basically, I think what we'd like to see, due to the observation that seems to indicate a change in formulation, is a) what was the change in the formulation, and b) when did it occur. Is it the same chemistry, or is it something completely different? Is it from the same additive supplier, or is it from a different source?

I imagine this shouldn't be difficult information to obtain.

 

[Pablo]

Why are you so sure the formula has changed?

 

[Donald]

I think a VOA is the only thing that can say that the formula has changed, unless Amsoil announces it. I once sent in a UOA of Amsoil ATF only to find out that the ATF I sent in was not Amsoil according to Amsoil tech reps. So the flush I had done with Amsoil was not done properly.

 

[Lyondellic]

Here is a link to the UOA in question. Note that Amsoil ATF has been used for the last 5 drain/fills. Based on the results, it looks as though something has changed. Amsoil tweaking their formula is not a bad thing, I was just wondering what the official word was from folks in the know on these things.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/02-accord-4at-amsoil-atf-2990-oci-84003-total.86593/

 

[Pablo]

I can't say for sure based on one UOA. I think if we get a VOA or several more UOA's that do show increased Boron and Phosphorous I can makes some inquiries.

Also I will add that the numbers are with some lab variances we have seen.

 

[Whitewolf]

I did not say that it had changed. What I said was that his information seemed to indicate that it may have changed. Has it changed? Not a difficult question yes or no?

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
Pablo - As a Dealer do they not inform you of any significant formulation changes? Within the networks I am/have been involved in any significant changes were always flagged

This is especially so with ATFs and gear lubricants as changes can indeed result in "disruption" amongst end users

 

[Pablo]

Doug - yes indeed.

 

[unDummy]

Don't confuse formula changes with lab inaccuracy.

If the formula is regularly tweaked with current technology, I see it as a benefit to an end user.

Unlike some companies, a bottle label change, an advertising campaign, a marketing blitz..... isn't needed for some boutique companies. The masses need that at the local store. The elite don't!

 

[gogozy]

do you know when it was changed?

thx

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: gogozy
do you know when it was changed?

thx


No, AMSOIL did not make a change to the ATF formula. The only thing we see are variances between labs and changes in additives based on % differences from left over Z-1 fluid and additions of AMSOIL ATF. You can see the wear going down and additives showing up in higher %. This just means that it takes a long time, many oil changes to get all of the old fluid out and a higher % of new fluid in.

 

[INDYMAC]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: gogozy
do you know when it was changed?

thx


No, AMSOIL did not make a change to the ATF formula. The only thing we see are variances between labs and changes in additives based on % differences from left over Z-1 fluid and additions of AMSOIL ATF. You can see the wear going down and additives showing up in higher %. This just means that it takes a long time, many oil changes to get all of the old fluid out and a higher % of new fluid in.



I think your answer is right on, Pablo. We see this with engine oil changes (UOA's) too. You will see residual additives and contaminates for several OCI's, even with the most thorough drains and filter changes.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: gogozy
do you know when it was changed?

thx


No, AMSOIL did not make a change to the ATF formula. The only thing we see are variances between labs and changes in additives based on % differences from left over Z-1 fluid and additions of AMSOIL ATF. You can see the wear going down and additives showing up in higher %. This just means that it takes a long time, many oil changes to get all of the old fluid out and a higher % of new fluid in.


Call Kevin Dinwiddie at Amsoil. He should know for sure whether or not any changes have been made to Amsoil ATF over the last few years.