Rebuilt Pontiac 301 turbo

[RooflessVW]

Amy reason not to use Rotella T6 or a euro high HTHS 0w30 or 0W-40?

My 280ZX Turbo did fine on 0w30 Castrol and Rotella T6. Similar oil pressures with both.

In your heat an HDEO 15w40 would work fine, as well.

 

[Michael_P]

Quote:
LOL!

Don't ever listen to this person.



Shannow has more knowledge on motor oil in his earlobe than most have in their entire brain. I take what he says as gospel. He also has sources to back it up. I have probably learned more from him than practically anyone else on the entire internet.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: KingCake
LOL!

Don't ever listen to this person.

Keep using a quality synthetic 5w30.

LOL! LOL!

Don't ever listen to KingCake.


No kidding, this dude is a piece of work. Blows into threads with his silly statements and then abandons them when confronted.

 

[mazdamonky]

I think we should ask whether the cam installed at the time is a roller or a flat tappet. If it is a roller, I would go with any good 5w30/10w30 synthetic and be happy. If it is a flat tappet, i would go with an HDEO such as chevron or rotella 10w30 syn blend or 5w40 synthetic.

 

[UNC151]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: KingCake
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Todd,
I'd probably go Amsoil ACD for Phoenix in that. It's "straight" 30 but also a 10W30, with an HTHS of 3.4...in that regard, Mobil 1 10W30 HM is similarly built. Don't change to 0W20 because 101 makes the statement of 10psi per 1,000RPM, that's an old "rule of thumb" for small blocks, as opposed to a statement of fact that pertains to your engine...101 has holes.
LOL! Don't ever listen to this person. Keep using a quality synthetic 5w30.
LOL! LOL! Don't ever listen to KingCake.

 

[FCD]

Also remember to always let your engine idle after driving for a couple of minutes to cool down the turbo

 

[RooflessVW]

You do not have to idle the engine; just don't hit full throttle into your parking space and then turn it off.

Idling around a parking lot or neighborhood before parking is adequate.

 

[threeputtpar]

Valvoline VR-1 10w30 in the silver bottle should be your go to option.

I always wanted to find a 1979 Grand Prix with that turbo 301, as I drove the naturally aspirated version in high school so I could compare the two.

 

[cameradude]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Todd,
I'd probably go Amsoil ACD for Phoenix in that.

It's "straight" 30 but also a 10W30, with an HTHS of 3.4...in that regard, Mobil 1 10W30 HM is similarly built.

Don't change to 0W20 because 101 makes the statement of 10psi per 1,000RPM, that's an old "rule of thumb" for small blocks, as opposed to a statement of fact that pertains to your engine...101 has holes.




First, thanks to everybody for their thoughful advice. Hearing people say why they would use one oil over another is very helpful.

Shannow, my worry with using a diesel or high zinc oil is my catalytic converter. Because 35 year old cars are not uncommon here in the desert, this car still has to pass emission testing. (The cutoff for emission testing in my county is 1966, '67 and newer need to pass unless you have classic car insurance which severely limits the miles driven.)

Would you change your recommendations based on that?

 

[A_Harman]

I'm typically against using diesel oils in turbocharged gasoline engines. The exhaust gas temperatures in turbocharged gasoline engines are ~500F higher than they are in turbodiesels.

I always default to fully synthetic gasoline-only oils that have Honda HTO-06 or Porsche A40 approvals.

Your car only has to pass emissions for the year in which it was built, whatever the standard was in 1981. 35 years ago, 1200ppm was a normal concentration of ZDDP in motor oils, so I wouldn't hesitate to use a high-ZDDP oil. I'm pretty sure your 301 has slider cam followers, so it would be reasonable to run oil of at least 1000ppm P content, if not 1200 or 1400. If your catalytic converter is still the original, it probably hasn't been working for the last 25 years anyway.

Shannow's recommendation of AMSoil ACD is reasonable.
ZRT would also be good.

 

[pottymouth]

If you're that worried about it, put in an Accucump or similar turbo oiler. Then you would at least be adressing the "problem" directly.

I'm not too sure you need one, but they are not all that expensive and peace of mind is worth something.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: KingCake
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Todd,
I'd probably go Amsoil ACD for Phoenix in that.

It's "straight" 30 but also a 10W30, with an HTHS of 3.4...in that regard, Mobil 1 10W30 HM is similarly built.

Don't change to 0W20 because 101 makes the statement of 10psi per 1,000RPM, that's an old "rule of thumb" for small blocks, as opposed to a statement of fact that pertains to your engine...101 has holes.



LOL!

Don't ever listen to this person.


Keep using a quality synthetic 5w30.


LOL is right! Shannow has forgot more about this topic in the last 20 minutes than you'll ever know. Thanks for the quality post though

OP: Shannow's advice is spot-on the money for this application and his reasoning is sound.

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
OP: Shannow's advice is spot-on the money for this application and his reasoning is sound.


I thought my advice was pretty good too even though it was bleeding with sarcasm.

 

[cameradude]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
I'm typically against using diesel oils in turbocharged gasoline engines. The exhaust gas temperatures in turbocharged gasoline engines are ~500F higher than they are in turbodiesels.

I always default to fully synthetic gasoline-only oils that have Honda HTO-06 or Porsche A40 approvals.

Your car only has to pass emissions for the year in which it was built, whatever the standard was in 1981. 35 years ago, 1200ppm was a normal concentration of ZDDP in motor oils, so I wouldn't hesitate to use a high-ZDDP oil. I'm pretty sure your 301 has slider cam followers, so it would be reasonable to run oil of at least 1000ppm P content, if not 1200 or 1400. If your catalytic converter is still the original, it probably hasn't been working for the last 25 years anyway.

Shannow's recommendation of AMSoil ACD is reasonable.
ZRT would also be good.


Here in Arizona the emissions standards are the same for all vehicles 1980 and newer. (The different standard emission categories are 1967 - 1971, 72 - 74, 75 - 78, 1979, and 1980 and newer.)

The cat in my car is new, installed the day I bought it (I bought the car in a county that does not do emissions testing). So I think that means high zinc oils are out, right? Don't SN oils have other wear-preventing additives so I don't need to worry about it?

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: cameradude
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
I'm typically against using diesel oils in turbocharged gasoline engines. The exhaust gas temperatures in turbocharged gasoline engines are ~500F higher than they are in turbodiesels.

I always default to fully synthetic gasoline-only oils that have Honda HTO-06 or Porsche A40 approvals.

Your car only has to pass emissions for the year in which it was built, whatever the standard was in 1981. 35 years ago, 1200ppm was a normal concentration of ZDDP in motor oils, so I wouldn't hesitate to use a high-ZDDP oil. I'm pretty sure your 301 has slider cam followers, so it would be reasonable to run oil of at least 1000ppm P content, if not 1200 or 1400. If your catalytic converter is still the original, it probably hasn't been working for the last 25 years anyway.

Shannow's recommendation of AMSoil ACD is reasonable.
ZRT would also be good.


Here in Arizona the emissions standards are the same for all vehicles 1980 and newer. (The different standard emission categories are 1967 - 1971, 72 - 74, 75 - 78, 1979, and 1980 and newer.)

The cat in my car is new, installed the day I bought it (I bought the car in a county that does not do emissions testing). So I think that means high zinc oils are out, right? Don't SN oils have other wear-preventing additives so I don't need to worry about it?


Many people do worry about, and that is why there are still high-zinc oils marketed for classic muscle cars with sliding cam followers. I would err on the side of protecting the engine, which is much more expensive and difficult to replace than the catalytic converter.

But if you have a cam problem running SN-spec oil, then that just gives you an opportunity to put in a modern hydraulic roller cam! Then as long as you have it apart: stroker kit, EFI system, twin turbos! There are still places out there that make cool stuff for Pontiacs.

Still another aspect is the low ZDDP limits only apply to 20 and 30 grades. 40-grade oils can have higher ZDDP.

It's interesting that Arizona has the same emissions standards for all cars built after 1980. But I don't see how they can expect a 1980 car to pass later emissions standards, so logically, I'm thinking that 1980 emissions are the limit that the car must meet. 1980 was before closed-loop feedback control of air-fuel ratio was implemented on most cars, and was also before the coming of port injection, and the more precise fuel control that enabled.

 

[spasm3]

Shannows advice makes tons of sense. I'd go with his suggestion. Unless you are burning a lot of oil the cats should be fine. Saturns go through a quart in 400 miles or so and mine never killed the cat.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
I thought my advice was pretty good too even though it was bleeding with sarcasm.

I'd agree, Merk. I can't see it needing a 20 grade, at least not an ILSAC one.

Cameradude: There is lots of good advice in here. Shannow makes some very good points. A_Harman's point about HDEOs is worth noting, but I'd add a couple qualifiers. Driving style matters. If it were my driving style in your climate, a 15w40 HDEO would be just dandy. For others, maybe not. A synthetic HDEO might be worthwhile.

Alternatively, if you, for whatever reason, wanted to avoid synthetics, Quaker State Defy or Valvoline VR1 in 10w30 are suitable options, as would be RP HPS. Go with something you like, of course, and spend what you're comfortable spending.

As for ZDDP, well, there are two things to look at. Yes, too much phosphorus will poison a cat, but that's assuming you're consuming enough oil. If you're consuming a lot of oil, it might not matter what you're running, when it comes to your cat. And, you may have cam problems down the road despite running "sufficient" ZDDP. At least a cat won't be expensive on the vehicle, certainly not in comparison to a cat on something new. A_Harman also covers some of the options if something goes wrong.

My big concern (which we haven't seen, fortunately, in this thread) is when we see people pushing a boutique oil designed to work miracles with cam protection, when two oil changes winds up costing more than a cam and lifter replacement.

Ramblejam: When I saw actual error bars on that chart you posted, I just about fell over.

 

[Shannow]

Cameradude, sorry for not getting back sooner...very low volatility was one of the reasons that I suggested this also. NOACK is in the standards for P transport reasons, and ACD is really really low.

The statements of others in the last page of the thread are good also.

If worried, go for the Mobil 1 High Mileage 10w30.

 

[BrocLuno]

Oil pressure is not an issue. It's supposed to be 60 at speed minimum, so you 70'ish not out of line for a new rebuilt motor.

You don't need a 5W or even a 10W oil in AZ. You do need minimum Viscosity Modifiers, or Viscosity Improvers. So that means the tightest "range" multi you can get reasonably. Shannow's pick might be No 1, but the price and availability might toss you in the direction of Delo400LE (LE means Low Emissions) XW-30. That would be my pick.

I run Delo400LE in three of the four high mileage vehicles in the back yard that have to pass Calif ODB-II Smog testing for post 1980 models w/o issue and have for a long time. As these sorts of oils go, Delo LE is easy on CATs

I would run the biggest filter that will physically fit. It will increase overall capacity and offer a bit of cooling area. I'd run a premium filter like WIX or NAPA Gold (same) to trap as many "coking" particles as possible. You won't get the baked on ones, but you will get the in-stream ones.

I'd also consider a by-pass filter if there is room to fit one. Keeping the oil spotless will help.

DeloLE has a long and successful carrier as a mixed fleet oil. Major companies by it by the truck-load for their service bays. CNG Buss systems use a lot of it in their turbo'd buss's that are not diesel, and it seems to work well

 

[gallydif]

Originally Posted By: KingCake
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Todd,
I'd probably go Amsoil ACD for Phoenix in that.

It's "straight" 30 but also a 10W30, with an HTHS of 3.4...in that regard, Mobil 1 10W30 HM is similarly built.

Don't change to 0W20 because 101 makes the statement of 10psi per 1,000RPM, that's an old "rule of thumb" for small blocks, as opposed to a statement of fact that pertains to your engine...101 has holes.


LOL!

Don't ever listen to this person.


Keep using a quality synthetic 5w30.

Do 10w30. There should be no such thing as 5w30 as it's pointless. Should go 0w30 then 10w30.