Ravenol RUP 5W40 with Liqui Moly Ceratec

[NewtonPulsifer]

Before I ever added hBN - specifically Archoil AR9100 ( nano potassium borate, hexagonal boron nitride (hBN), tungsten disulfide )to my RX-8 I measured the engine braking. From engine braking in 3rd gear down a mild hill at the same speed and then swinging into a left turn, before Archoil AR9100 the car was at 20mph and after 23mph. 0-60 improved by 0.1 seconds. I have a lightened flywheel so that probably increased the effect. So friction was reduced enough to measurably reduce engine braking and my guess aid motor rev up to redline. That effect stayed through an oil change, so I don't know that you'll be able to do a comparison. That is also assuming that friction reduction also resulted in a wear reduction, which doesn't necessarily follow but I'd bet money probably does (an additive could reduce friction but then cause extra sludge at the tail end of a oil interval for example by interfering with other oil properties)....also it seems Ravenol includes tungsten already.

IMO I don't care if it doesn't reduce wear (although the only two UO analyses I ever did came out great with both Liqui Moly Ceratec and Archoil AR9100, and I did 30k mile oil changes on the RX-8 and 15k on the Mercedes SLK320 - 36 and 18 months). Mobil 1 0W-40 synthetic previously on the SLK320, assorted dino and synthetic blend frankenoil discards in the RX-8 as that car uses/injects oil by design into the combustion chamber.

It measurably reduces NVH in both vehicles as recorded in the Bosch iNVH app by others and subjectively noted by myself and my wife who wasn't told about the additive. Fuel usage was reduced by 1% in my wife's car which was very easy to track as she used a fuel delivery service, and also easy to calculate on the RX-8 because of its terrible gas mileage. Our driving style on those two cars is momentum driving "bat out of h3ll" so of course YMMV.

Maybe it won't improve over your Ravenol, but Ceratec did improve on a some "regular" oil fills both franken-synblend-dino and 0W-40 Mobil 1 synthetic for me.

 

[kschachn]

Before I ever added hBN - specifically Archoil AR9100 ( nano potassium borate, hexagonal boron nitride (hBN), tungsten disulfide )to my RX-8 I measured the engine braking. From engine braking in 3rd gear down a mild hill at the same speed and then swinging into a left turn, before Archoil AR9100 the car was at 20mph and after 23mph. 0-60 improved by 0.1 seconds. I have a lightened flywheel so that probably increased the effect. So friction was reduced enough to measurably reduce engine braking and my guess aid motor rev up to redline. That effect stayed through an oil change, so I don't know that you'll be able to do a comparison. That is also assuming that friction reduction also resulted in a wear reduction, which doesn't necessarily follow but I'd bet money probably does (an additive could reduce friction but then cause extra sludge at the tail end of a oil interval for example by interfering with other oil properties)....also it seems Ravenol includes tungsten already.

None of that has to do with the oil.

 

[PimTac]

Blackstone wrote quote : "your engines copper and lead read impressively low so your brass/bronze parts and bearings are doing especially well"

What vehicle are we referring to here? Make Model and year.

 

[750IX]

What vehicle are we referring to here? Make Model and year.

BMW n63tu 2013. 750ix

 

[OVERKILL]

The reason these aren’t pre-added to motor oil is perhaps because they would add $3.20-$3.80 per quart in price and Walmart Supertech Synthetic is $2.80 per quart.

So it may just be difficult to market it pre-added.

Mobil and Shell own Infinium, their cost for additives is likely the lowest in the industry. An oil formulation is a balancing act, you don't just dump obscene amounts of one compound in because it makes it "better". Concentration past a certain level may actually cause negative effects, for example ZDDP at higher levels is actually corrosive.

Moly is another thing where past a certain concentration, there fails to be additional benefit, and this is further muddied by the types of moly, with the tri-nuclear type (Shell/Mobil) being significantly more effective at lower concentration levels.

Tungsten is expensive, yet that's what Ravenol is using, along with PAO, which is also REALLY expensive. The company that's selling you Group III oil with "moly" in the name and then an "improvement" additive that's Moly should raise all kinds of red flags. In the context of this thread, the question here is whether the odds are at all in favour of improving an oil that is, by all metrics, blended by a company who appears to take a no-holds-barred approach to formulation using obviously expensive components, and my answer to that is a hard no.

It should cause one to take pause in noting that the only companies peddling aftermarket "oil improvers' are themselves extremely small or insignificant players in the global lubricant game. The idea that perhaps they are trolling for an additional revenue stream that simply isn't necessary for the big boys should cross one's mind.

It's a lot like Lucas peddling Group I bright stock with a tackifier and zero additives and having the balls to call it an "oil stabilizer". The smell of bovine excrement is so strong it causes one to have to leave the room as the vomit percolates at the back of the throat.

 

[OVERKILL]

I was thinking about copper 1 and lead 0, they were impressively low qoute from Blackstone. Good sign reguarding bearings, i give the Credit to ceratec

WELL beyond the useful resolution of a $20 UOA. Accuracy here is not in the single PPM range, UOA's are a tool designed to identify contamination and determine suitability for continued use, not discern the minutiae of wear for the purposes of evaluating lubricant performance. It's like using an industrial pile driver as a framing hammer, it simply lacks the precision to perform the application in question.

 

[PimTac]

BMW n63tu 2013. 750ix

Thanks. I’m not totally familiar with this engine but many auto manufacturers were already getting lead out of bearings and such even before 2013.

A resident BMW expert might be able to clarify this

 

[OVERKILL]

Thanks. I’m not totally familiar with this engine but many auto manufacturers were already getting lead out of bearings and such even before 2013.

A resident BMW expert might be able to clarify this

Yes, alumasil bearings have been extremely common since the 90's at this point.

 

[750IX]

Point taken guys, the Ravenol Rup is more then good enough in its original form, extra additives can even make it worse with sludge. I was trilled by Ceratec because i could feel the difference but the tungsten and moly already in this oil is good enough and maybee even better then ceratec.

There is always alot to learn here at BITOG, i appreciate it

 

[NewtonPulsifer]

@OVERKILL to expand on the marketing problem - it is confusing to sell an oil where you tell the customer to only run it like every fourth oil change (every 30k miles).

 

[OVERKILL]

@OVERKILL to expand on the marketing problem - it is confusing to sell an oil where you tell the customer to only run it like every fourth oil change (every 30k miles).

Not really, I'm sure it pans out over a decent sized customer base and gives the appearance of extended "effectiveness". But then the question becomes: why procure product from a company whose position appears to be that their own lubricants are deficient and thus require "treatment" with an additive after the fact? Obviously Ravenol and Mobil don't adhere to this ideology; there isn't a Mobil "+1" product to further bolster the performance of Mobil 1, nor is there an equivalent from any of the other majors.

 

[750IX]

Maybe this is why Liqui Moly launched their "Molygen New generation" because its easier to earn an extra dollar a quart by putting the additives in the oil themself compared with selling it as a stand alone product.

A guy at Amazon had asked Liqui Moly tec if he could put Ceratec in his Molygen New generation oil (maybe my brother from another mother ) and here is their answers: They specifically said "We (Liqui Moly) do not recommend using Ceratec with Molygen oils since Ceratec will not work properly together with the additive package already in the oil. If used together deposits may form quicker and deposits in an engine can be damaging". I Guess this is the right answer for Ravenol Rup aswell althoug the answer i got was a little different

 

[kschachn]

A guy at Amazon had asked Liqui Moly tec if he could put Ceratec in his Molygen New generation oil (maybe my brother from another mother ) and here is their answers: They specifically said "We (Liqui Moly) do not recommend using Ceratec with Molygen oils since Ceratec will not work properly together with the additive package already in the oil. If used together deposits may form quicker and deposits in an engine can be damaging". I Guess this is the right answer for Ravenol Rup aswell althoug the answer i got was a little different

Guess the Liqui Moly company should change their website then since it states "Miscible with all commercially available motor oils and motor vehicle gear oils" for the Ceretec product. That answer above doesn't sound like miscible to me.

Or maybe they aren't really the ones answering on Amazon. Or maybe they just make stuff up, I don't know.

 

[TiGeo]

When I added Ceratec to my LM Leichtlauf High Tech 5W40 a few changes ago, UOA for that change showed 208ppm moly and 280ppm boron (these are 0 in the VOA for that oil). It is supposed to work with other oils. I know for a fact that they do not recommend that you run it with their Molygen products – it is discussed almost weekly on their IG live chats and other info out on the interwebs - their tech folks say no-go on that combo. It’s supposed to be a single application for 30K miles; the solid friction modifier is gone after the first change but the chemical friction modifier is supposed to last the full 30K. They also say you can run MoS2 on the changes between applications. The Molygen oils contain a tungsten-based friction modifier (they call it "MFC"). Just comments based on my research and chats with their folks.

 

[TiGeo]

Maybe this is why Liqui Moly launched their "Molygen New generation" because its easier to earn an extra dollar a quart by putting the additives in the oil themself compared with selling it as a stand alone product.

A guy at Amazon had asked Liqui Moly tec if he could put Ceratec in his Molygen New generation oil (maybe my brother from another mother ) and here is their answers: They specifically said "We (Liqui Moly) do not recommend using Ceratec with Molygen oils since Ceratec will not work properly together with the additive package already in the oil. If used together deposits may form quicker and deposits in an engine can be damaging". I Guess this is the right answer for Ravenol Rup aswell althoug the answer i got was a little different

Actually, the Molygen 5W40 is slightly cheaper typically than the popular Leichtlauf High Tech 5W40 so by the time you add Ceratec, it's quite a bit cheaper to just run the Molygen with the tungsten-based friction modifier "MFC" in it.

 

[kschachn]

That sounds like quite a dangerous situation then. I happend to be in NAPA tonight and the containers of Ceratec did not say anything about that. Don’t you think it would be a good idea to put that warning either on the website and/or the container rather than just in private communication?

Seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen.

 

[750IX]

Is the "Molygen new Generation" similar to Ravenol Rup, the additives "MFC" is moly and tungsten like the Ravenol Rup. Does Ravenol got a better baseoil? They have different approvals for BMW, LL01 for LM and LL04 for Ravenol

 

[TiGeo]

That sounds like quite a dangerous situation then. I happend to be in NAPA tonight and the containers of Ceratec did not say anything about that. Don’t you think it would be a good idea to put that warning either on the website and/or the container rather than just in private communication?

Seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen.

"Dangerous" and "lawsuit" are a bit much I'd say....I don't think this will have that kind of an impact yes, they should add a warning if they think it doesn't work well with some oils/additives.

 

[TiGeo]

Is the "Molygen new Generation" similar to Ravenol Rup, the additives "MFC" is moly and tungsten like the Ravenol Rup. Does Ravenol got a better baseoil? They have different approvals for BMW, LL01 for LM and LL04 for Ravenol

The Ravenol actually has the approvals vs. LM which is just "recommended for". That Ravenol looks pretty radical just reading the info about it so I'm guessing it costs a fortune?

 

[750IX]

The Ravenol actually has the approvals vs. LM which is just "recommended for". That Ravenol looks pretty radical just reading the info about it so I'm guessing it costs a fortune?

I bought like 20 Liters so its like 12 Euro pr liter or like $13-$14 plus some shipping from Germany to Norway. Not to bad really, most quality oil like Castrol or BMW oem is at least $10 and even more

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