Rant: On new petro-powered cars in general.

Pennzoil motor oil
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NA4U

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Perhaps it's just me, or are the car manufacturers trying to use the consumer for testing grounds on longevity.

Giving us very lightweight oil viscosities, reducing the mill spec on the metal skin to the point where if you lean your bicycle up along the side of it you ding it.

Insurance companies seem to give Car/engines very low engine life averages.

I had a 24 Mercedes GLC 300 where the insurance company gave it a life expectancy average of around 125k miles for the engine. And if it wasn't for all the electrical problems I would still probably have it, thank goodness for lemon law attorneys and corporate buyback policies.

I now drive a modern day Volkswagen! Which is a Toyota RAV4. It appears so many of these were made and they are now turning into some real feather weight means of transportation, Subarus as well

Is there any heavy metal Motors left out there that won't fall apart with excessive ethanol now in our fuel, which brings up another rant!, is that another means to help knockout petrol cars so everyone will gravitate toward hybrid or EV?
 
All the weight saving measures - if that is what your ranting about - are for improved mileage.

The exterior sheet metal has been made thinner, much of it replaced by plastic and aluminum parts. The structural integrity of the passenger compartment is still as good as ever. Maybe better.

You can blame CAFE if you like. My guess is they would have gone down the road of cost savings either way. The thin oil issue can be easily corrected by you, but if you have the new Rav4 the Dynamic Force 4 cylinder has proven so far to be very reliable.
 
mikeduf said:
Perhaps it's just me, or are the car manufacturers trying to use the consumer for testing grounds on longevity.

Giving us very lightweight oil viscosities, reducing the mill spec on the metal skin to the point where if you lean your bicycle up along the side of it you ding it.

Insurance companies seem to give Car/engines very low engine life averages.

I had a 24 Mercedes GLC 300 where the insurance company gave it a life expectancy average of around 125k miles for the engine. And if it wasn't for all the electrical problems I would still probably have it, thank goodness for lemon law attorneys and corporate buyback policies.

I now drive a modern day Volkswagen! Which is a Toyota RAV4. It appears so many of these were made and they are now turning into some real feather weight means of transportation, Subarus as well

Is there any heavy metal Motors left out there that won't fall apart with excessive ethanol now in our fuel, which brings up another rant!, is that another means to help knockout petrol cars so everyone will gravitate toward hybrid or EV?
Click to expand...
There is absolutely nothing wrong with thin oils. Modern Mercedes in the last several years have never been an example of reliable longevity.
With the RAV4 you have a reliable power train with mediocrity where you can't see it.

Generally vehicles are safer than they have ever been-even with plastic, aluminum and thin steel panels.

Without getting political-in this current state there is no hidden agenda for you to buy an EV-a vehicle BTW with 90% fewer moving parts than an ICE counter part.
 
Nessism1 said:
Vehicles are HEAVY these days. Not only battery powered vehicles, even conventional. 3500 lbs is a light vehicle now. Regarding thin oil, it seems to be a non issue for durability.
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I agree, so many heavy cars now! My two cars are still relatively light though. My Corvette weighs 3300 pounds and my Civic weighs 2750.
 
Well I agree with a lot of what other comments have been in some ways and in some ways not. Yes manufacturers are going Cafe standards and giving us 10 and 15% ethanol in our fuel. Once again cheaper (cost efficient )to make.

yes lighter overall weight will make the engine work less and become more efficient. Now introduce direct injection and Port injection. Which is a great thing for performance and efficiency, but in some cars it causes excessive oil/fuel dilution like my RAV4 hybrid.

I think my real complaint here is the cost of cars and trucks now with components that seem to be visually and fundamentally less costly. I should also mention insulation in these new cars like soundending on the door skins and quarter panels are almost non-existent.
 
Last edited:
mikeduf said:
Perhaps it's just me, or are the car manufacturers trying to use the consumer for testing grounds on longevity.

Giving us very lightweight oil viscosities, reducing the mill spec on the metal skin to the point where if you lean your bicycle up along the side of it you ding it.

Insurance companies seem to give Car/engines very low engine life averages.

I had a 24 Mercedes GLC 300 where the insurance company gave it a life expectancy average of around 125k miles for the engine. And if it wasn't for all the electrical problems I would still probably have it, thank goodness for lemon law attorneys and corporate buyback policies.

I now drive a modern day Volkswagen! Which is a Toyota RAV4. It appears so many of these were made and they are now turning into some real feather weight means of transportation, Subarus as well

Is there any heavy metal Motors left out there that won't fall apart with excessive ethanol now in our fuel, which brings up another rant!, is that another means to help knockout petrol cars so everyone will gravitate toward hybrid or EV?
Click to expand...
Planned. Obsolescence.

And yes is the answer to your last question. It’s not a conspiracy theory if all objective evidence proves the hypothesis.
 
F150 2015 5.0 L engine 100K+ 5W20 its whole life. Plan on keeping it longer.

Outbacks I own all go 150K before major issues, mostly CVT related. These results are better than what I had in the past. Strong advocate for modern vehicles.

I do math on ethanol fuel vs non, since I have a choice around my location. The 10% ethanol comes out as most economical, so that is what I use. My OPE doesn't know the difference, either.

That's all I have to say.
 
AZjeff said:
2025 Rav4 3510 lbs, 2010 Rav4 3360 lbs according to Edmunds.
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My FWD Rav4 is about 3400 lbs - which is about 100 pounds less than the comparable 2018 / Gen 4. However the Gen5 is quite a bit larger, so more with less.

Shaving a couple hundred pounds off a car sounds easy but it is not. OEM's didn't add extra stuff ever - as that is just extra cost, so they have to make existing parts lighter. Then if you want to add hybrid motors and batteries - well thats even heavier.

So the reasonable question becomes when do they go too far?
 
JayhawkRoy said:
F150 2015 5.0 L engine 100K+ 5W20 its whole life. Plan on keeping it longer.

Outbacks I own all go 150K before major issues, mostly CVT related. These results are better than what I had in the past. Strong advocate for modern vehicles.

I do math on ethanol fuel vs non, since I have a choice around my location. The 10% ethanol comes out as most economical, so that is what I use. My OPE doesn't know the difference, either.

That's all I have to say.
Click to expand...
Yes here on the West Coast most of the better fueling stations are all 10% ethanol now. The RAV4 runs fine on it, I'm not sure how the 15% will affect its fuel economy? Probably go down most likely.
 
SC Maintenance said:
My FWD Rav4 is about 3400 lbs - which is about 100 pounds less than the comparable 2018 / Gen 4. However the Gen5 is quite a bit larger, so more with less.

Shaving a couple hundred pounds off a car sounds easy but it is not. OEM's didn't add extra stuff ever - as that is just extra cost, so they have to make existing parts lighter. Then if you want to add hybrid motors and batteries - well thats even heavier.

So the reasonable question becomes when do they go too far?
Click to expand...
I think I would still appreciate a little more sound deadening on the door skins and the quarter panels. They have none I have looked! But butyl sound deadening Matt is quite heavy when you start adding it up. So I can see why there are omitting that.
 
All those creases and complex body panel shapes that we're now used to require thinner metals. It's not always to save weight. If done correctly it can actually strengthen the body parts. But if done incorrectly a two year old on a big wheel can cave in a door panel pretty easily. Even the smallest pea size hail can now dent hoods, roofs, and trunk lids. I think that pisses off insurance companies more than anything.
 
GaryMX5 said:
All those creases and complex body panel shapes that we're now used to require thinner metals. It's not always to save weight. If done correctly it can actually strengthen the body parts. But if done incorrectly a two year old on a big wheel can cave in a door panel pretty easily. Even the smallest pea size hail can now dent hoods, roofs, and trunk lids. I think that pisses off insurance companies more than anything.
Click to expand...
They hot stamp those crazy shapes now (heat the metal till its maleable). So I am not sure they need the lighter steel to do it. Could be - but I still think its mostly about cost and weight.

 
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