The whole needing money upfront for a job with no custom materials is a huge red flag.
Questions for any general contractors
- Thread starter Ronsant
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Locations with a lot of home construction creates competition...as do higher income locations. Google reviews are generally accurate in my experience. Referrals are probably the best tool for selection.
We hired a roofing/siding contractor for our beach house based on my checking Google Reviews.
The roofing crew showed up on the date agreed upon at 0700 hrs. Tore off the old roof, put down the Certainteed wrap and had the new roof finished by 1500hrs including cleanup. Their siding crew took about 4-5 days to complete but that included trimming all windows and doors with Azek.
I've also found that treating the crews like the humans they are goes a long way. I put out a cooler with water and cokes and grill hotdogs and a few bags of chips at lunchtime. That goes a long way to getting the job done right and has never failed.
That contractor did 2 other roofs for our neighbors across the street...those home are $4 million and new roofs for them are expensive.
We hired a roofing/siding contractor for our beach house based on my checking Google Reviews.
The roofing crew showed up on the date agreed upon at 0700 hrs. Tore off the old roof, put down the Certainteed wrap and had the new roof finished by 1500hrs including cleanup. Their siding crew took about 4-5 days to complete but that included trimming all windows and doors with Azek.
I've also found that treating the crews like the humans they are goes a long way. I put out a cooler with water and cokes and grill hotdogs and a few bags of chips at lunchtime. That goes a long way to getting the job done right and has never failed.
That contractor did 2 other roofs for our neighbors across the street...those home are $4 million and new roofs for them are expensive.
Yessir!
Some contractors are just that. Contractors that contract with workers or even other companies and suppliers. So they maybe rotating staff from site to site based on the skills of any number of workers. Plumbing company maybe having workers doing work for contractor ABC, CBS and ATV and they get booked on a list of jobs to get too. Same goes for framers, roofers, electricians etc.
I see it ALL day long in the new community I live in now and our last new community. For example, many people think big builders, DR Horton, Lennar, Pulte, Meritage, Toll, KB etc etc actually build homes (some of the top 100 do) but most in the top 5 nationally are pretty much contractors. They dont build anything and I mean THEY DO NOT BUILD ANYTHING, they hire companies to do each phase of a home construction for each particular speciality.
I see it ALL day long in the new community I live in now and our last new community. For example, many people think big builders, DR Horton, Lennar, Pulte, Meritage, Toll, KB etc etc actually build homes (some of the top 100 do) but most in the top 5 nationally are pretty much contractors. They dont build anything and I mean THEY DO NOT BUILD ANYTHING, they hire companies to do each phase of a home construction for each particular speciality.
Did you go with the lower priced contractor?
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I think they say yes to all the jobs and try to figure it out on the back end. You gotta make hay when the sun is shining!
Example - both our new homes, the BIG builders had EXCELLENT warranty staff. What that means is, when there is an issue with ANY part of the home, you log into your account online, and mouse click through an issue, including the best time to call you on any particular day. (you can also call their 800 number)
Our current almost 3 year old home now was LENNAR AND I DID EVERYTHING ON LINE, if I scheduled a call at 9am tomorrow, I SWEAR for one years worth of warranty work the actual builder warranty dept deals with ANY issues, that phone rings EXACTLY to the second at that time. It was amazing.
One of two things will happen, we would get a link for a two way video on the issue and or if more complicated send the actual builders company warranty rep to the house. We knew them all, great people and never more than a day or two or three to get to your house. Always arrive when they say.
So this is how it works. The house is literally built by subcontractors for the BIG national builders. (Our last home DR Horton, same experience and that was during the housing crash) For those subs to do work for these big builders they must offer the builder themselves like DR horton, Lennar etc one year to cover any work that they do to the customers satisfaction. It's an amazing formula that works. The entire warranty dept and staff is lets say LENNAR employees. Their only job is to make you happy and have the contractor that did the job back at your house to correct any issue you report. It's that simple, plumbers, electricians, drywall, paint, cabinets, siding, framing, roof, concrete. Anything, you do not deal with their subs, the builder does. Also if there is anything unusual that is not the contractors fault, built into that house price is an expected expense that the builder will send a contractor out to make you happy. Also the builders rep would show up almost any time the contractor came back for that warranty work, if it was less critical we would get a call from the builder art the end of the day. We also had to Docusign every warranty work was completed to our satisfaction.
Sadly and not so sadly our house was built coming right out of COVID, supplies were short and workers more short, some lacking proper training/skills by these sub contractors. It was an INDUSTRY WIDE problem as you can imaging. Having dealt with new home large builder in the past. I kept my cool as frustrating as some people would freak out and one by one, pages of warranty work and requests for work were done by the builder. NOT once were we refused. Heck within the first month, I had them tear out all the concrete work, driveway and front walk, done, no problem. After 3 attempts to correct an issue with the laminate flooring in one area of the home, they asked us to move out, supplied us with movers, onsite storage, a paid for condo for 3 days while they tore out and replaced the entire laminate flooring with the top of the line flooring that we chose. Let me tell you, some of this was stressful but never once denied. Minor things, I wanted an aquarium in the main family room, however the Thermostat would have been slightly right near one side of it. Needed it moved, no problem.
At times the short supplies worked for us, such as a better than builder upgrade to the HVAC system etc.
Ok, kind of off subject but maybe not, my only question would be is the OPs contractor contracting out the work or using 1099 employees or are they actual employees? Because everything I see here in the south is either 1099 contractors or sub contracting companies. It's a business model. However not to say there are no private companies doing awesome work, there will always be those. Trick is sometimes you dont know, who is what and maybe to ask questions if you think about it.
We got custom I guess) wood blinds for this house from blinds.com ... price was great, blinds.com people were great however unknown to us, they sent a Home Depot employee to our house to confirm my measurements. It was also the Home Depo employee who installed them. WE DID NOT LIKE THE INSTALLER and I am not super thrilled in the rush job both measuring and installing. Not that anyone would know but NEVER again. SO another example. Great blinds.com product, crappy experience dealing with their subcontractor at Home Depot.
Our current almost 3 year old home now was LENNAR AND I DID EVERYTHING ON LINE, if I scheduled a call at 9am tomorrow, I SWEAR for one years worth of warranty work the actual builder warranty dept deals with ANY issues, that phone rings EXACTLY to the second at that time. It was amazing.
One of two things will happen, we would get a link for a two way video on the issue and or if more complicated send the actual builders company warranty rep to the house. We knew them all, great people and never more than a day or two or three to get to your house. Always arrive when they say.
So this is how it works. The house is literally built by subcontractors for the BIG national builders. (Our last home DR Horton, same experience and that was during the housing crash) For those subs to do work for these big builders they must offer the builder themselves like DR horton, Lennar etc one year to cover any work that they do to the customers satisfaction. It's an amazing formula that works. The entire warranty dept and staff is lets say LENNAR employees. Their only job is to make you happy and have the contractor that did the job back at your house to correct any issue you report. It's that simple, plumbers, electricians, drywall, paint, cabinets, siding, framing, roof, concrete. Anything, you do not deal with their subs, the builder does. Also if there is anything unusual that is not the contractors fault, built into that house price is an expected expense that the builder will send a contractor out to make you happy. Also the builders rep would show up almost any time the contractor came back for that warranty work, if it was less critical we would get a call from the builder art the end of the day. We also had to Docusign every warranty work was completed to our satisfaction.
Sadly and not so sadly our house was built coming right out of COVID, supplies were short and workers more short, some lacking proper training/skills by these sub contractors. It was an INDUSTRY WIDE problem as you can imaging. Having dealt with new home large builder in the past. I kept my cool as frustrating as some people would freak out and one by one, pages of warranty work and requests for work were done by the builder. NOT once were we refused. Heck within the first month, I had them tear out all the concrete work, driveway and front walk, done, no problem. After 3 attempts to correct an issue with the laminate flooring in one area of the home, they asked us to move out, supplied us with movers, onsite storage, a paid for condo for 3 days while they tore out and replaced the entire laminate flooring with the top of the line flooring that we chose. Let me tell you, some of this was stressful but never once denied. Minor things, I wanted an aquarium in the main family room, however the Thermostat would have been slightly right near one side of it. Needed it moved, no problem.
At times the short supplies worked for us, such as a better than builder upgrade to the HVAC system etc.
Ok, kind of off subject but maybe not, my only question would be is the OPs contractor contracting out the work or using 1099 employees or are they actual employees? Because everything I see here in the south is either 1099 contractors or sub contracting companies. It's a business model. However not to say there are no private companies doing awesome work, there will always be those. Trick is sometimes you dont know, who is what and maybe to ask questions if you think about it.
We got custom I guess) wood blinds for this house from blinds.com ... price was great, blinds.com people were great however unknown to us, they sent a Home Depot employee to our house to confirm my measurements. It was also the Home Depo employee who installed them. WE DID NOT LIKE THE INSTALLER and I am not super thrilled in the rush job both measuring and installing. Not that anyone would know but NEVER again. SO another example. Great blinds.com product, crappy experience dealing with their subcontractor at Home Depot.
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No, we went with the company that had good reviews. Roof, siding, bathroom, and now deck. 2-3 years between each job. Never used the same company twice. Hoping to find someone good and stick with them, but has not happened yet.
Not great for the customer.
We have had small guys where the owner and a few workers do the job. The roof was a subcontracted crew. The siding was hybrid depending on what they needed . Some spoke no English.
Deck company is one guy with 3 workers. All showed up the first few days. Today ( six weeks in) one worker. Once the frame and footings were done, work slowed way down.
Deck company is one guy with 3 workers. All showed up the first few days. Today ( six weeks in) one worker. Once the frame and footings were done, work slowed way down.
This sums it up.
A few words of advice for future operations.
1.) Find a references for the workers you are wanting to use. Not to say that this is always the case, but randomly calling up companies that will come out and give you a quote, can be counterproductive, and costly. Those types of companies charge a premium for the quote, should you give them the job. STAY away from the big conglomerates, find "that guy" that your neighbor used.
2.) Never select from price, select from their previous work. Not saying pick the highest, pick the one that makes sense. Usually, the one in the middle is quoting enough to cover the job, should they make a mistake.
3.) Always be ready to start the project the next day. If you are asking them to do the job, be ready at a moments notice. Construction is a very complicated trade, with many things out of your contractors control. Be ready, be out of the way, and be timely with your payment.
4.) Never give a deposit. An established contractor who is in the black, should never ask for money up front.
5.) Always ask for a certificate of insurance of workers comp and general liability.
6.) Dont be a pest to the worker.
All good advice, but still doesn’t explain why these guys do business this way. All of the “small guys” we used required at least 1/3 upfront. We only get quotes when we are ready for the work to begin. Everyone that we hired either gave us addresses to look at past work, and/or had a “portfolio” of past jobs.
All I’m asking is to work on my job until it’s done. Today we had one guy show up and he laid down some decking. There is still cement to be poured, railings to be done, etc. I spoke to the worker, gave him some snacks and water. He told me that the owner is working on two other jobs currently. He was not sure if he was going to come back tomorrow or not. About half the decking is in but not cut to length, long story short, a lot more to be done, and the guy is sending less workers.
My wife is fluent. There also almost fluent in English, but they won't let you know this until your vetted. Apparently fluent wife makes you vetted.
These clowns don’t really think long term. Not all of them but most contractors aren’t formally trained at any level on what we would call ethics let alone human relations or professional proper customer satisfaction.
I was a contractor and now work with construction contracts. You have to be on them from the start. Make sure the contract has milestones, penalties, whatever it takes to make them show up. Don't just write checks either. Make sure they did what they say. Don't prepay for anything at all if possible. Make sure they know you are not happy and why. Don't be a jerk. Just tell them I paid what you asked to do the work. Now do the work as quoted. I recently had a kitchen remodel and they tried to scam me at the end for some little BS things like a missing shelf. I made 100% sure everyone knew I was not happy. They finished the job and I paid immediately.
Not even legal in many places
Look up state/local laws. 1/3 up front may be illeagal.
Working toward a goal is still working, whether you see it or not. I understand what you are saying, but see advice #6. It does not always work that way.
Was this person you selected happen to be the cheapest person?
Nice, snacks and water. At least the guy was sent to install decking.
See, you need to see advice #6 again. You do not cut all deck boards to length until you are done with at least all deck boards, and sometimes the railing.
If you know how to do the work, then do it.
It is likely, that you have annoyed this contractor by breaking rule #6. You probably call them everyday. In the future, spell out clear expectations of timeframe, with a clear deadline.
I don’t call them at all. When they get here , I give them some cold bottled waters, and ask how things are going. Please don’t assume bad behavior on my part.
They were not the cheapest, they had the most positive reviews, and we liked that the owner told us he had a small crew and they he was almost always on site.
I understand that the deck boards don’t get trimmed until they are all laid out. I didn’t expect that since we don’t even have the railing system on site yet. My point was that they could have had this project done if they worked everyday.
If asking for a progress report is being a pest, than the contractor is in the wrong business. If you meet the customer and do the quote, you need to expect to have some dialogue with the homeowner. If you don’t want to deal with customers don’t start a business where you are the sales guy.
This is a small deck, not some huge multi level situation.
6 weeks is plenty of time, even including s few days off for inspections and letting footings dry.
Maybe I misread your tone, but it feels like you are blaming me. We paid right on time as agreed in the contract.
The owner did come by today and apologized for the delays. That was nice. He set an expectation of being finished next week. But he is considering the lattice and details as a separate job, so that will be another 2-3 weeks.
My initial question was what is the business reason for this method of operation. It seems the answer is that contractors are out for themselves and are not good businessmen generally.
