Question on Oil Filter Magnets

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: CR94
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
... I might as well start smoking a pack a day of unfiltered cigarettes and only get 3 hours of sleep a night because I'll probably get murdered or in a fatal accident before I die of natural causes. ...
Maybe hypothetically, but smoking would be far more likely to shorten your lifespan than failing to use filter magnets is to shorten the life of a car.


It was an extreme example of a straw man argument like the one responded to.

 

[Shata]

Like mentioned everyone is going to have opinions on this. One thing I say is it cant hurt. Also my buddy had his lifter trunions fall apart on his LS and he had drain plug magnet. He would have never known the engine didnt sound like it had bad rocker at all. He did oil change and had 15 needle bearing attached to drain plug. Having drain magnet and oil filter magnet is definitely good observation tool.

 

[Whipcitywrencher]

Originally Posted By: Shata
Like mentioned everyone is going to have opinions on this. One thing I say is it cant hurt. Also my buddy had his lifter trunions fall apart on his LS and he had drain plug magnet. He would have never known the engine didnt sound like it had bad rocker at all. He did oil change and had 15 needle bearing attached to drain plug. Having drain magnet and oil filter magnet is definitely good observation tool.



That's one for the magnets

 

[goodtimes]

Originally Posted By: Shata
Like mentioned everyone is going to have opinions on this. One thing I say is it cant hurt. Also my buddy had his lifter trunions fall apart on his LS and he had drain plug magnet. He would have never known the engine didnt sound like it had bad rocker at all. He did oil change and had 15 needle bearing attached to drain plug. Having drain magnet and oil filter magnet is definitely good observation tool.


The drain magnet saved the day. With a filter bypass valve, the captured iron particles, some of them may be large like the needles, could be swept off the can wall, through the bypass and into the main bearings. I think it could damage an engine. Seeing captured iron after cutting open a filter is taking a picture of the iron at the time the filter was taken off. Particles could be dislodged travel around again and be caught again. Needles captured and held onto the media with oil pressure is way better than having them dislodge from the can magnet and go through the bypass on a winter start up. Dome end bypass some bypass circulate at the base.

 

[ZeeOSix]

The rocker needle bearings on the LS rockers are way too large to even go through the oil pump pickup screen. But still, I wouldn't want them possibly floating around in the oil pan.

 

[StevieC]

Lawn equipment has no filter and no magnets and they seem to last just fine, heck most don't even see an oil change in their whole life so there is tons of metal bits floating around and these engines continue to run without catastrophic damage.

With a filter on an engine that is enough, magnets aren't needed and aren't going to produce anything worthwhile.

 

[Malo83]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Lawn equipment has no filter and no magnets and they seem to last just fine, heck most don't even see an oil change in their whole life so there is tons of metal bits floating around and these engines continue to run without catastrophic damage.

With a filter on an engine that is enough, magnets aren't needed and aren't going to produce anything worthwhile.



OK, don't change your oil and filter in your car and let's see how long she'll run

 

[StevieC]

Oh you mean like older VW's that don't have oil filters and ran just fine? I'm not suggesting running without a filter, what I'm saying is that if these engines runs just fine without filters and magnets then surely a car with a filter doesn't need a magnet to extend its life.

Look at the Toyota truck that went a million miles on simple conventional oil and filter changes.

 

[goodtimes]

Briggs no oil change engines use a very tightly sealed oil fill tube and a good air filter. I have one, the gasket is really tight on the oil tube. It's interesting they found air and sealing to be most important. Although those never change oil engines use splash lube so that is different from a car.

IMO iron particles caught by a magnet inside a dome bypass oil filter could actually do damage to engine bearings. There is no way to see what is going on in there during use.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: Shata
Like mentioned everyone is going to have opinions on this. One thing I say is it cant hurt. Also my buddy had his lifter trunions fall apart on his LS and he had drain plug magnet. He would have never known the engine didnt sound like it had bad rocker at all. He did oil change and had 15 needle bearing attached to drain plug. Having drain magnet and oil filter magnet is definitely good observation tool.



Take all us jamokes out of it and ask whose opinion really does mean something?

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Briggs no oil change engines use a very tightly sealed oil fill tube and a good air filter. I have one, the gasket is really tight on the oil tube. It's interesting they found air and sealing to be most important. Although those never change oil engines use splash lube so that is different from a car.

IMO iron particles caught by a magnet inside a dome bypass oil filter could actually do damage to engine bearings. There is no way to see what is going on in there during use.



Without a magnet its going in during bypass for sure - with a magnet you have a chance of catching it.

I understand this position and you've been consistent with it, but I do not agree which is ok - fitch doesn't see it either from what I can see- he actually says the opposite -

At least you can state a position which brings dialog.

Saying you'd use it with a non bypass filter (how about a base end bypass?) is understandable if you are mainly concerned with a bybass event dislodge

Any issue with a mag drain plug ?

Or how about transfilter with a mag in it?


UD

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Lawn equipment has no filter and no magnets and they seem to last just fine, heck most don't even see an oil change in their whole life so there is tons of metal bits floating around and these engines continue to run without catastrophic damage.


The typical kind of strawman argument that cleaner oil doesn't matter. Yeah, that engine might not "blow-up", but it will be more worn than if the oil was kept cleaner.

I'm still waiting for someone to link to an official SAE type study that shows that cleaner oil causes the same or more level of wear compared to dirtier oil.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Lawn equipment has no filter and no magnets and they seem to last just fine, heck most don't even see an oil change in their whole life so there is tons of metal bits floating around and these engines continue to run without catastrophic damage.

With a filter on an engine that is enough, magnets aren't needed and aren't going to produce anything worthwhile.



All the situation are not equal.

Ask a commercial lawn guy that needs to get 10K hours out of a piece of gear how he feels about zero oil changes and he'll laugh.

Often times - The difference between trashing a high dollar Winberg or Bryant forged marine crankshaft and saving are gouges or severe end wear where somehow stuff slipped past all your filters.


UD

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Lawn equipment has no filter and no magnets and they seem to last just fine, heck most don't even see an oil change in their whole life so there is tons of metal bits floating around and these engines continue to run without catastrophic damage.


The typical kind of strawman argument that cleaner oil doesn't matter. Yeah, that engine might not ? blow-up", but it will be more worn than if the oil was kept cleaner.

I'm still waiting for someone to link to an official SAE type study that shows that cleaner oil causes the same or more level of wear compared to dirtier oil.



Or the story about "my high mileage engine" - half the guys I know have had quarter million mile+ small blocks. So what.

Show me how tight it really is with numbers vs - "runs great" and let's talk about what its life looked like and what you did to keep it fresh.




UD

 

[Yah-Tah-Hey]

Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
Originally Posted By: Yah-Tah-Hey
The magnet thing again.


.....not any magnet thing again. I struck Gold this time. See the difference below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUdgneom5t8
Put a couple in each shoe.

 

[StevieC]

You guys are missing my point... I wasn't advocating for dirty oil or no filter, I was just saying that in these conditions the engines are fine, obviously clean oil and a filter would be better.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
You guys are missing my point... I wasn't advocating for dirty oil or no filter, I was just saying that in these conditions the engines are fine, obviously clean oil and a filter would be better.

There's big difference between an engine "running fine" and not "blowing up" using dirty oil vs an engine's actual measured level of wear due to maintenance and the level of cleanliness of the oil throughout it's lifetime.

 

[goodtimes]

Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Briggs no oil change engines use a very tightly sealed oil fill tube and a good air filter. I have one, the gasket is really tight on the oil tube. It's interesting they found air and sealing to be most important. Although those never change oil engines use splash lube so that is different from a car.

IMO iron particles caught by a magnet inside a dome bypass oil filter could actually do damage to engine bearings. There is no way to see what is going on in there during use.



Without a magnet its going in during bypass for sure - with a magnet you have a chance of catching it.

I understand this position and you've been consistent with it, but I do not agree which is ok - fitch doesn't see it either from what I can see- he actually says the opposite -

At least you can state a position which brings dialog.

Saying you'd use it with a non bypass filter (how about a base end bypass?) is understandable if you are mainly concerned with a bybass event dislodge

Any issue with a mag drain plug ?

Or how about transfilter with a mag in it?


UD





I see the benefits of magnets as shown here. But magnets aren't infinitely powerful, iron can be taken off with enough force. My visualization is iron particles stuck to the smooth can wall, then on a cold start or WOT event the oil wash iron off and through the bypass valve. Those same particles on the media stay put much better. Oil flow, DP, holds them in and they also imbed. On the can they are hanging out there, no DP.
Of course particles not able to be filtered and get stuck by magnet are better than flowing through. I am talking about larger particles the filter catches. On my car I would use magnets, drain plug and can. I don't know which is the best one for the can though.
Ford sort of says the same thing with their bypass valves on the base, and that is saying particles may wash off media and go through bypass unfiltered.
So maybe I am wrong about it all and particles wash off media easier than magnet. It seems to me there is no way to know yet. I just had this idea and because it is different suddenly I am the anti magnet guy.

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted By: Marchboom
Got a 1 yr old Subaru Forester and was wondering if placing a magnet on the oil filter would be of any value. I haven't been able to find any definitive info on whether they are worth the money. Has anyone here tried them?

Thanks


Look, no matter what anyone answers, adding a magnet to the outside of the filter (such as the excellent photo below your OP) will remove the smallest particles of metal that any filter can not.

Another option, magnetic oil pan plugs, same deal. GOLDPLUGS.com to me is the standard yet Im sure there are some others, freaking crazy how expensive BUT its a one time purchase. Magnetic plugs are what I use but if their was a reasonable STRONG magnet for the filter I would maybe prefer that, maybe not, but either one,
After thinking about it, would prefer the pan magnet plug, its so darn powerful, amazing and out of the flow of the oil, just sits at the bottom of the pan.

So yes, its that simple, undebatable as far as I am concerned. Magnets capture hard metals that filters can not and any metal we remove cant be a bad thing.

Worth the money? One time purchase for your vechicle, how can it be a bad purchase compared to over spending on expensive oil that is no better then Walmart Supertech, or on oil filters no better.

BY THE WAY, I ASSUME YOU KNOW THAT SOME SUBARU'S CAME/COME WITH A SUBARU OEM MAGNETIC OIL DRAIN PLUG FROM THE FACTORY!
Simply google OEM Subaru Magnetic Oil Drain Plug. (bet most didnt know that) )_

[censored], my motorcycle came from the factory with one too.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Lawn equipment has no filter and no magnets and they seem to last just fine, heck most don't even see an oil change in their whole life so there is tons of metal bits floating around and these engines continue to run without catastrophic damage.


Kind of puzzling since you are all into going with a bypass filtering setup to clean the oil even more than any high efficiency full flow and magnets could do.