Question, Engine 04TL knocking.

[1 SX]

Hi all, my friend has a 2004 Acura Tl navi, bought it with 72K miles, now at 78K miles, is at the dealer because the valves were out of adjustment, and were ticking. Well, while there, they did do a valve lash adjustment, started the car up, and when it is warm, was still knocking/ticking loudly. They said that the one or some of the pistons were going bad or something like that...(say what?? with under 80K miles??) But i was wondering, if that could be a cause of the person before him using like 87 or something for 70K miles?? I know my friend uses 93 at all times(as car calls for it), also we change the oil, and do a PP syn 5W20 and M1-110 filter ever 5-6K miles.. (we changed it twice since he got it).. Could this happen because the valves were so badly out of adjustment, or because of like using 87, or something way different? Thanks!!

 

[flwxman]

I doubt 87 gas would cause that. Sounds like poor maintenance on the part of the original owner to me... maybe bad injectors? Did your friend try running a fuel system cleaner?

 

[1 SX]

Oh yeah, we did that X2. It was called Chevron Techtron, did not notice any difference. Its at the dealer now, getting the pistons replaced, and will take up to a week..... But this seems crazy that with only 80K miles, you would have a huge problem engine wise. There does not seem to be any sludge or anything like that, and the car runs well...

 

[bepperb]

and the car runs well....

Are you kidding?

 

[1 SX]

No im being serious. Why would you ask?? It runs fine, just the knocking/ticking sound.... If you were deaf, you would never know anything was wrong...

thanks.. For all i know, that could be the dealership trying to get something over on him..

 

[Donald]

Need to look in owners manual to see if it says "high test required" or "high test preferred". Most modern engine have a knock sensor and will retard timing (maybe more than that) once they detect a knock (way before you will hear it).

What car needs a valve adjustment at 78K? Doesn't the car have hydraulic lifters?

Something is defective.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Donald
What car needs a valve adjustment at 78K? Doesn't the car have hydraulic lifters?

Something is defective.

That's normal, a lot of the Honda V6 engines need valve adjustments around 100k. I wouldn't be surprised if it would benefit from a valve adjustment at this mileage.

Honda engines do not have hydraulic lash adjustment.

 

[Quest]

Originally Posted By: Donald

What car needs a valve adjustment at 78K? Doesn't the car have hydraulic lifters?

Something is defective.


Nope. you are absolutely wrong ma friend.

Back in the earlier years well into the 60s and 80s, many import cars (European, most Japanese in particular, etc.) requires regular valve adjustments to keep them running nice and quiet.

Fast forward to 2009: Honda is the only one amongst Japanese major manufacturers that would still require scheduled valve adjustments. As much as you nay-sayers would like to grill over them for being so "primitive", what they do away with hydraulically driven valvetrains, they make it up with VTEC systems.

Whether you like it or not, that's Honda to you.

Q.

 

[andyd]

Sounds like just a botched valve adjustment. OTOH, too much lash is better than too tight.

 

[rationull]

Originally Posted By: Donald

What car needs a valve adjustment at 78K? Doesn't the car have hydraulic lifters?


While as Quest says Honda is probably the only manufacturer left that specs valve adjustments, there are plenty of new engines out there that don't have hydraulic lifters. Honda still uses the easy-to-adjust screw and locknut style tappets but to my knowledge Toyota, Nissan, and Ford (and probably more) use cam-in-bucket mechanical tappets, on their 4 bangers at least. So theoretically they don't require adjustment as often but adjusting them is much more of a PITA. Still not hydraulic.

 

[Donald]

I stand corrected. But not sure this is progress.

So what does my 94 Camry 4 banger have that I have not squat to in 100K miles (now 210K miles).

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Donald
What car needs a valve adjustment at 78K? Doesn't the car have hydraulic lifters?

Something is defective.

That's normal, a lot of the Honda V6 engines need valve adjustments around 100k. I wouldn't be surprised if it would benefit from a valve adjustment at this mileage.

Honda engines do not have hydraulic lash adjustment.
Wouldn't this be taken care of when the timing belt is replaced at 105K miles?

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Throckmorton
Wouldn't this be taken care of when the timing belt is replaced at 105K miles?

That is correct. Usually the timing belt, water pump, drive belts, hydraulic tensioner, spark plugs and valve adjustment are performed at the 105k, A4 or B4 services.

For many Honda V6 models, the timing belt and water pump are billed at 4.4 hours, the valve adjustment is billed at 2.6 hours and the spark plugs are billed at one hour labor.

 

[demarpaint]

I don't think we'll ever know now. They're replacing the pistons the OP stated. Sounds extremely suspect considering the miles on that car. I think it needed a good valve adjustment.

 

[1 SX]

I will keep you updtate, on what was wrong...

 

[oilboy123]

So the pistons are bad and nothing else? They must have problematic pistons.......

 

[BuickGN]

I saw this over on acurazine and it is a piston problem. If you guys heard the video you would know there's no way it's a valve adjustment issue.

These TLs seem to be sensitive to detonation and many of them detonate even on 91 octane. The computer can't pull enough timing to stop the pinging on 91 octane sometimes. How would you expect it to protect itself if the previous owner ran 87 for most of it's life?

Nothing wrong with the pistons themselves, just a detonation prone engine.

 

[The Critic]

They are probably just going to install a new short block.

 

[1 SX]

So update, The car is still at the dealer, Acura says its most likely the camshaft.. There is alot.. A LOT of sludge built up... The service guy said he had never seen it so bad... (great!) Ugh. only had 7K miles on synthetic, 70K miles on Dino oil.. So, then after everything is fixed, he is going to have a Engine Flush... Waiting on the Warrt. Comp to come and check over the engine to say that they will cover it..

 

[Eddie]

My 2000 Subaru 2.5L and my 2007 Mazda CX7 says listen to valves at 75,000? miles and if noisy have them adjusted. Many Japanese and European engines use an adjustable lifter (mechanical-lifter).