question about kendall and schaeffer 15w40

Messages
41
Location
youngstown, ohio
I've been doing some price shopping and thinking about making a change for engine oils and lubricants. I'm currently using chevron for everything, but its starting to get to darn expensive. I'm paying anywhere from 14-16.00 a gallon for 15w40, by the case, or roughly 12.00 a gallon for a 55 gallon barrel...all from my local rep. The application is a road tractor, 99.9% highway miles, running 80K lbs or less. First question is in regards to Kendall dxa semi synthetic 15w40..... a different rep in the area for another company can sell me the Kendall DXA for 12.00 a gallon if I buy a 55 gallon drum. Now, I know that is the same price as the Chevron, but he is claiming that I'm getting a better oil for the same money as a non synthetic blend in chevron brand. He's making claims that Kendall is leading the oil industry right now in testing and longevity. I think that I would be fine either way, but am I really getting a better oil for the same money?? Is the liquid titanium really making a difference? I found an old thread where it stated that the titanium was a cheaper additive then moly so that is why its becoming so popular, any insight on this??? Second is in regards to Schaeffer's. A buddy of mine buys it from a local place, he states that he is getting it for 14.00 a gallon in their buckets. I of course questioned that, cause it does sound strange. I can't find that stuff anywhere online for less then 25.00 a gallon. Anyways, to the question, my local rep for this new oil company says that Schaeffer is a great oil, but a snake oil. He is stating that the moly in the oil is to large of particles to go through an oil filter, so he is claiming that shortly after you change your oil, the filter is catching the moly and it is not really doing anything. Can anyone elaborate on this?? This rep I'm talking with says that if you read the SDS for the grease and oil and compare it to other brands, that you can get the same thing for half the cost, he's stating that there is really nothing special about the brand. Oh, I should add, my new local rep is also a dealer for citgo, gulf, phillips, and many more. I don't know if anyone has thoughts on these oils, but I'll listen and learn. I'm not knocking the brand, I see the results of my buddies engine and don't like what I see, but I'd like some clarification on what this rep is telling me. good, bad or indifferent. I personally feel my buddy is being taken for a ride by his oil supplier, but he seems to like it that way lol.
 
Last edited:
Messages
4,232
Location
Kansas
+ 1 . I thought at our shop the Schaeffer Rep. was cool and calm. I would have bought from him had I not have a bunch of tech2000/supertech synthetic oil laying around
 
Messages
948
Location
N.A.
Welcome to BITOG, Schaeffer is a great oil. Just google and start reading back to 2002. Our rep on BITOG is great. The Rep's will give you good deals when you purchase in bulk. Good luck!
 

dnewton3

Staff member
Messages
8,459
Location
Indianapolis, IN
You've been here since 2012; 6 years now. Yet only 7 posts. Either you have an incredible amount of restraint, or you just don't spend much time here. All API licensed lubes are good oils. Most well-known non-licensed lubes are decent as well. Although you likely won't want to hear this, there's no way any of us can tell you which is the best oil for your application. To determine which would be "best" would require a LOT of money and time in testing and analysis. Since you're obviously concerned about money (debating the merits of a few dollars per gallon is understandable), then I presume you're not going to want to get into doing UOAs. Here's the quick and easy answer ... Just pick the least expensive API certified lube and don't worry about it. I say this for two reasons: 1) most every piece of equipment has a reasonably-steady wear rate once broken in, and that wear rate changes very little during the bulk of it's overall life-cycle 2) most every lube will do a job more than good enough that for a typical OCI duration; you'll not see any distinct difference in wear control between lube choices We have a few OTR members here; dusty, ah and others. Typically they have found that any decent HDEO will suffice quite well. Recently dusty ran his rig in some "severe" conditions, and even though he used dino 10w-30, his wear rates were unaffected and VERY desirable. Check out dusty's recent UOAs here: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...5k-miles-detroit-diesel-dd13#Post4939076 My point is this; do NOT allow yourself to fall victim to pundits and marketeers. Typically their "proof" is just biased views of what their team believes is "best", with little to no credible facts to back it up. I wholly and completely agree that there is always a "best" lube, but it takes tons of time and money to prove what it "best". Whereas it takes little to no investment of time or money to get a lube that is more than good enough for the task at hand. Although I don't know what engine is in your rig, it really does not matter. Whatever spec is applicable to your engine, use that or a higher level of API lube. Currently CK-4 is the flavor-de-jour and has shown excellent results; I refer back to DRs UOAs. As a closing note ...
Quote
...my local rep for this new oil company says that Schaeffer is a great oil, but a snake oil. He is stating that the moly in the oil is to large of particles to go through an oil filter, so he is claiming that shortly after you change your oil, the filter is catching the moly and it is not really doing anything. Can anyone elaborate on this??
Yes, I can elaborate. Point 1 ... how can he state that a great oil is a snake oil? conceptually those would be polar opposites ... Point 2 ... he clearly knows zilch about lubricant additives, and yet he's a sales person for a lube company? You're on the receiving end of brand-biased, uninformed moronic nonsense, and you should run, not walk, away from that person.
 
Last edited:
Messages
2,005
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Absolutely agree with all of Dnewtons advice. Furthermore I can buy 15w40 Mobil Delvac 1300 here at Wal-Mart for 9.97/gal, Supertech is 8.87/gallon. Both are significantly less expensive than what you're currently running and would both perform just as well at the specified intervals stated by your engine manufacturer. If you're looking for a cost savings switch to one of those, not a different lube at the same price you're currently paying. A friend of mine has a logging company in Michigan, he runs the CHEAPEST 15w40 with a current API spec he can find in all of his equipment, usually it's 15w40 Super Tech by the pallet or Tractor Supply Traveler's by the pallet of gallons or 5 gallon buckets. Trucks gross 164,000 which is the legal limit for super trains in Michigan, he runs them all 500,000 before moving on to a new rig, trucks are sold before he drives all the value out of them. He hasn't lost a tractor, truck, skidder, dozer, feller, forwarder, or grader engine ever. Woods equipment is run 5-10 years depending on the piece of equipment. The only thing he doesn't run the least expensive 15w40 in is his older 2 stroke Detroit powered equipment, they all run on Chevron Delo 100 SAE 40. His gas work trucks get the same 15w40 year round as the equipment.
 
Messages
4,939
Location
VA
From my research, Schaeffer's is not a snake oil. It is a very good oil made by a privately owned, US based, Christian company. It is what I would be using if I could purchase from a local dealer like I do my Amsoil.
 
Last edited:

thejudges69

Thread starter
Messages
41
Location
youngstown, ohio
I don't think that I have ever been ridiculed so much by such a group of arrogant people. Ridiculed for my lack of post count, and said I'm either well restrained or don't visit much. On the contrary, I do read a bit on here, I could offer my .02 worth an then be called a troll cause I'm uneducated in these fields. Basically ridiculed for asking questions for the sake of learning. Ridiculed for wanting to save money, never stating that I want to sacrifice quality for the sake of saving money, yet that's apparently all I'm worried about, saving money. Reminds me a lot of the practical machinist forum, they are extremely arrogant over there as well. This page is apparently pro Schaeffer's oil, I never said it was bad, I never said it was junk. I simply stated what I was told and give 6 responses, none of which touch on why it is so great and none of which have answered any of my questions. Asked several questions, none of which were even touched on except the fact that there is a Schaeffer's rep on the board and it's a great oil. Nothing else. I'm a one truck, 3rd generation operation, my bottom line is important, yet sacrificing my engine or equipment is not an option for the sake of saving money. Thanks for nothing BITOG!!
 

wjm

Messages
40
Location
Ohio
Schaeffer's is no snake oil been using it for 12 years. In semi's guys are running 60k drain intervals with clean UOA to go farther. This buy far would make it a good choice
 
Messages
2,005
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Originally Posted by thejudges69
I don't think that I have ever been ridiculed so much by such a group of arrogant people. Ridiculed for my lack of post count, and said I'm either well restrained or don't visit much. On the contrary, I do read a bit on here, I could offer my .02 worth an then be called a troll cause I'm uneducated in these fields. Basically ridiculed for asking questions for the sake of learning. Ridiculed for wanting to save money, never stating that I want to sacrifice quality for the sake of saving money, yet that's apparently all I'm worried about, saving money. Reminds me a lot of the practical machinist forum, they are extremely arrogant over there as well. This page is apparently pro Schaeffer's oil, I never said it was bad, I never said it was junk. I simply stated what I was told and give 6 responses, none of which touch on why it is so great and none of which have answered any of my questions. Asked several questions, none of which were even touched on except the fact that there is a Schaeffer's rep on the board and it's a great oil. Nothing else. I'm a one truck, 3rd generation operation, my bottom line is important, yet sacrificing my engine or equipment is not an option for the sake of saving money. Thanks for nothing BITOG!!
Care to elaborate how I was arrogant, called you a troll, provided no valuable information? Dnewton didn't degrade or promote a premium oil in your application. He and I both said you'd spend extra money for no real benefit from a premium oil. I provided a cost neutral option and a low cost high quality option to the Chevron you're currently running. To answer another one of your questions, no the moly in the Schaffers does not get trapped by the filter. Titanuim isn't a cheaper substitute for Moly and they're used in different ways in different quantities. The Delo uses ISOSYN which is a highly treated GRP II oil vs a "blend" DXA which is GRP II with some hydrocracked GRP III. Without spending THOUSANDS in testing, you'd never see a difference, if one even existed. In my opinion switching from Delo to DXA is not a "better oil" for the same money, but switching to Delvac 1300 for under $10 a gal would be switching to an equivalent oil for LESS money. I also provided real world examples of an operator using less expensive oils in his fleet with outstanding results. Curious as to how anything I said was rude or arrogant.
 
Messages
1,238
Location
upstate NY
Originally Posted by thejudges69
I don't think that I have ever been ridiculed so much by such a group of arrogant people. Thanks for nothing BITOG!!
I hope you're just having a bad day or maybe you were up all night and mentally drained. I don't see any signs of ridicule in this thread. Dave and Luke both gave you good feedback. They didn't espouse the greatness of either of the oils you inquired about, nor did they bash you for considering those oils. Just gave you things to consider. The vast majority of us here (certainly myself) can only offer anecdotal information regarding anything oil or grease related. I've used everything from Walmart Supertech to Delvac 1 synthetic. The only difference I've seen in UOAs are the length of OCI that each oil was capable of. The only thing we can do is decide how far we're comfortable pushing an oil and decide the best value to reach that point. I used the titanium laden Kendall DXA for several OCIS and never saw anything special nor anything wrong with it. The Supertech (you didn't ask, but I've tried it) did the same as all other brands in my 22-25k mile OCIs. I think the Schaeffer's (like Amsoil and Delvac 1) could take you far beyond any conventional oil in terms of lasting TBN. I doubt that your engine lasts any longer with Schaeffer's, but it could be used to save you time, energy and resources if you extend your OCI to get a return on the investment. I don't know what else to say. Like I said already, my experience and information is anecdotal...not scientifically lab tested.
 
Last edited:
Messages
1,238
Location
upstate NY
Originally Posted by thejudges69
I don't think that I have ever been ridiculed so much by such a group of arrogant people. Ridiculed for my lack of post count, and said I'm either well restrained or don't visit much. On the contrary, I do read a bit on here, I could offer my .02 worth an then be called a troll cause I'm uneducated in these fields. Basically ridiculed for asking questions for the sake of learning. Ridiculed for wanting to save money, never stating that I want to sacrifice quality for the sake of saving money, yet that's apparently all I'm worried about, saving money.
I would like to encourage you to offer your 2 cents on any subject you choose. There is plenty to be learned from various people's experience whether it relates to your heavy truck or anything else. Unless you were an actual troll looking to stir things up, you are entitled to an opinion and it doesn't matter what others think. Share whatever you want and can.
 
Messages
1,178
Location
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted by thejudges69
I don't think that I have ever been ridiculed so much by such a group of arrogant people. Ridiculed for my lack of post count, and said I'm either well restrained or don't visit much. On the contrary, I do read a bit on here, I could offer my .02 worth an then be called a troll cause I'm uneducated in these fields. Basically ridiculed for asking questions for the sake of learning. Ridiculed for wanting to save money, never stating that I want to sacrifice quality for the sake of saving money, yet that's apparently all I'm worried about, saving money. Reminds me a lot of the practical machinist forum, they are extremely arrogant over there as well. This page is apparently pro Schaeffer's oil, I never said it was bad, I never said it was junk. I simply stated what I was told and give 6 responses, none of which touch on why it is so great and none of which have answered any of my questions. Asked several questions, none of which were even touched on except the fact that there is a Schaeffer's rep on the board and it's a great oil. Nothing else. I'm a one truck, 3rd generation operation, my bottom line is important, yet sacrificing my engine or equipment is not an option for the sake of saving money. Thanks for nothing BITOG!!
Whoa ! I've read all the posts, found them helpful to YOUR request for opinions & facts, nobody has been ridiculed except the oil rep (were you that rep?) Maybe you ought to reread them and reconsider your outburst.
 
Messages
397
Location
Missouri
Originally Posted by FlyNavyP3
Originally Posted by BigShug681
Well this is confusing
Anything you need cleared up?
The change in mood of the thread lol
 

dnewton3

Staff member
Messages
8,459
Location
Indianapolis, IN
Originally Posted by thejudges69
I don't think that I have ever been ridiculed so much by such a group of arrogant people. Ridiculed for my lack of post count, and said I'm either well restrained or don't visit much. On the contrary, I do read a bit on here, I could offer my .02 worth an then be called a troll cause I'm uneducated in these fields. Basically ridiculed for asking questions for the sake of learning. Ridiculed for wanting to save money, never stating that I want to sacrifice quality for the sake of saving money, yet that's apparently all I'm worried about, saving money. Reminds me a lot of the practical machinist forum, they are extremely arrogant over there as well. This page is apparently pro Schaeffer's oil, I never said it was bad, I never said it was junk. I simply stated what I was told and give 6 responses, none of which touch on why it is so great and none of which have answered any of my questions. Asked several questions, none of which were even touched on except the fact that there is a Schaeffer's rep on the board and it's a great oil. Nothing else. I'm a one truck, 3rd generation operation, my bottom line is important, yet sacrificing my engine or equipment is not an option for the sake of saving money. Thanks for nothing BITOG!!
I will offer the olive branch; I didn't mean to offend you. Allow me to address your grievances ... It was not ridicule, but a tongue-in-cheek attempt at humor regarding your low post count. When your post count is nearly the same magnitude as your years of membership, that's a RARE thing. Like it or not, you'll need to thicken your skin if you intend to hang around here; we can be a tough lot to reside in. It is also indicative that many folks with such low counts don't come around much, and so they are often out of touch with the current lube info. However, as you claim, you are here often; you state "I do read a bit on here". That being the case, then there's really no reason for me to believe you should not understand the other points I made, either. You cannot have it both ways; you're either not here often enough to be current in many topics, or you're lurking in the shadows (not posting) and well versed in the HDEO topics, and therefore are just adding fodder to a fire. I was in no way ridiculing you about saving money; I'm a penny-pinch'er myself. I was merely pointing out that if you really want to know what's "best", it costs oodles of cash and time; something that NONE of us have. Therefore, suspecting you didn't want to run many, many UOAs to find out the answer to your question regarding the two lubes, I offered advice on how to save money and still get a good results (low wear rates). I assume that, like many of us here on BITOG, you're looking for good wear control AND would not turn down a good bargain. Some folks here like to spend top money on very expensive products; there's nothing wrong with that because it's their money to spend. But it is often wasteful if they don't use the products to a full magnitude of value. Paying 2x or 3x for a syn should return you 2x or 3x worth of something, right? If you don't measure the base conditions, and then measure the alternative outputs, you'll have ZERO idea if you choice is a good choice. But, there is a whopping truck-load of evidence that most every lube (especially those that are API licensed) will return a very good result (maybe not affirmed as the best, but darn good enough) for a great value. I'm not poking at your for saving money. I'm trying to help you save money by offering advice that is bolstered by facts and data. Kendall is good oil. Schaeffers is good oil. So are a LOT of other brands. You asked some generic questions ... yet another variation of "hey - what's the best ..." This is covered a bazillion times on BITOG. There is no "best" lube for every condition. There are many, many good ones. If you've been actively reading on this site in the manner in which you claim, you'd already know that by now. My point about the lube rep that gave you some advice is still salient, and I stick by it. Any guy that tells you that "good oil is also snake oil" regarding Schaeffers (or any other premium brand for that matter) is a salesman first and foremost, and a very uninformed one at that. Further, you can become a better consumer by asking him to explain those kinds of statements. Don't come here to BITOG and ask us to second-guess his moronic comments; go challenge the info at the source! You claim to "read a bit on here"; OK - fine. Then you should know better than to accept a statement like that from a lube rep. If he were a truck salesman, and he said "Peterbuilt trucks are a good truck, but they're junk" would that stand firm in your mind? Or, if he said "Remington makes a fine rifle, but they're all garbage" would that reconcile in your mind? So when he says "Schaeffers is great oil, but a snake oil", did that not have a sour tone to your ear? Why didn't you ask him to explain that stupid comment, not us? I am not pro or anti for any product. I am, however, pro-value and very much pro-data-driven proof. If you thought I was pro Schaeffers and against some other brand, you greatly misunderstood my mindset. Further, when it comes to judging lube performance at it's core, that being how a lube controls wear, have you read this? https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/used-oil-analysis-how-to-decide-what-is-normal/ This is a great place to start basic understanding of the most important part of lubes; that of outputs. Too many folks worry about what's in the bottle, but it's what comes out of the crankcase that is THE most important topic. And to this end, I can say we've come full circle here. Over 15,000 UOAs can prove that brand/grade matter not at all. There are many, many roads (different lube choices) to the same desired destination (low wear and good longevity). Don't get hung up on this. You have control over one variable, and little-to-none over another. You can choose a lube that has as much or little cost as you wish, but the wear rates associated with those lube choices will actually show very little differential. Conceptually, you can spend 2x or 3x more money on a lube, but unless you GREATLY extend the OCIs with the more expensive choices, you'll not see the ROI pay you back. You are in control of your costs and your OCI duration, but you have very little control over the wear rates (presuming you don't abuse or neglect your equipment; I assume you don't). The great misunderstanding you (and many other BITOGers) are under is that changing lubes will greatly alter your equipment wear-rates. Data actually proves quite the opposite. Despite changing lubes and grades, wear rates are often quite steady and very predictable. Even changes in severity factors has little effect on wear rates, and I linked one very fine example in dusty's UOAs as proof. The point is that your engine will not really care what lube you use; it's going to have a fairly consistent wear rate not matter what you put into the crankcase. So the only way to really have a positive effect on the overall experience is to choose a lube that allows you control the costs, and then manipulate the OCI to a duration that gets the greatest "bang for the buck". It is just that simple. However, to maximize ANY product usage, you will need to do UOAs. So if you are adverse to that, and intend to stick with OEM limits, then the "best" lube is the cheapest lube you can find on sale that meets your API criteria. In normal OEM OCIs, your engine will NEVER EVER know the difference between any two lubes, but your wallet surely will. You claim you asked two questions and didn't get an asnwer. I disagree with you, sir. - You asked first about Kendall vs Chevron. They are both good brands and will do a fine job. I made a point to tell you that none of us can tell you which is "best" because that entails hundreds of thousands of miles of testing that would be needed, all at your cost for the lubes, UOAs and time. Question answered - You asked if Schaeffers is good oil, and made a specific note about the "snake oil" reference. You also queried about the rep's comments regarding moly will be stripped out by the filter. I told you that the person whom said that is a moron because he clearly does not understand additive solubility. Question answered. Maybe it's not that I didn't answer your questions, but that you didn't like the answers? I am sorry if I offended you, but I made fair, accurate, unbiased comments. I'm sorry you took offense to them.
 
Last edited:
Messages
6,773
Location
Fort Lauderdale, FL
1. Schaeffer is not snake oil. Schaeffer is legendary among race engine and commercial engine builders who never read a UOA or lab test. They pull engines apart for a living and see for themselves what works and does not work. They take a $20,000-50,000 bath for being wrong. Bull feces or mediocre results are not accepted. 2. Schaeffer's moly does not get caught up in the filter. I and many people have proven that not only does Schaeffer's moly pass through a regular filter, it even passes through submicronic bypass filters capable of capturing soot. 3. The longest running Cummins ISB engines on record (1 million plus miles without changing anything in the engine) ran bargain-basement Chevron Delo or Mobil Delvac conventional. 4. My own trucks lived the first 250k miles of their lives on Delvac conventional and cheapskate Pennzoil jobber filters. You can put tissue paper over the oil fills of both engines and they will stay in place. Minimum blowby. Rings and liners are in heaven on Earth. 5. In my experience with a commercial fleet of more than 40 vehicles plus more equipment is this: The only thing you're going to get out of a high dollar oil or filter is a longer OCI (compared to cheap HDEO). Only exceptions are engines with engineering problems, or engines that are operating well outside of their original specifications. Long story made short: Schaeffer's is exceptional, your rep believes in fairy tales, and just dump in some cheap HDEO and make sure you change it in a reasonable time. That's it.
 
Messages
227
Location
UT. USA
I've been running Phillips 66 Guardol ECT (which is the same as Kendall DXA) 15W40 and 10W30 in my 12.7 Series 60 Detroit for close to a year now. I typically run close to 80,000 lbs gross weight, from the Rockies to the Midwest and down South. It's done a fantastic job. I've used Delvac Super 1300 15W40, Delvac Elite 10W30, Chevron Delo 400 LE 15W40, SDE 15W40, and XLE 10W30 for probably 150,000 miles each before changing to to Guardol. Looking at my UOAs, the Delvac and Chevron oil performed identically, the UOAs I've seen from Guardol look a smidge better. Please bear in mind that I don't run extended drain intervals in my motor. I typically do my PMs from 12,000 to 15,000 miles. The only reason I switched to Guardol is price per gallon. I buy the 15W40 in bulk from my local Distributor, who charges me bulk pricing and my price per gallon is usually less than what Walmart charges for Delvac Super 1300. The 10W30 Guardol costs me slightly more because they don't offer it in bulk, but they may soon I've been told, but even still, it costs me less per gallon than Walmart's price on Delo XLE 10W30. My brother was a Diesel Mechanic and Trucker for many years, and his onetime boss and longtime friend is as good as they come in regards to Diesel Mechanics. He started twisting wrenches in the early 70s, and is now in charge of a big fleet of On-Road/Off-Road Semis. He's definitely not simply a "Parts Changer". I've picked his brain on all things HDEO related. He told me in all of his years, he's never seen any proof that one major brand of HDEO is superior to another, they're all made to meet the same specs, and as long as the oil meets the specs of your motor, and you're changing it, and your filters as specified by the manufacturer, there's nothing more to worry about. He also told me OCIs can be extended, as long as you're running UOAs. So, long story short, I personally chose the oil I use according to it's price per gallon. I'd extend my PMs, but at this time, I'm dispatched to be out a month at a time, so I have my PMs done on my home time, which is why I'm doing them every 12,000 to 15,000 miles.
 
Top