I drove a Model S P100D loaner that was speed limited to 85 MPH. I could still put it in Ludicrous Plus, although I didn't. Ludicrous was kind of fun just to get up to freeway speeds although I never pushed it to its limits.
Question about EV high performance vs everyday utility
- Thread starter AZjeff
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I drove a Model S P100D loaner that was speed limited to 85 MPH. I could still put it in Ludicrous Plus, although I didn't. Ludicrous was kind of fun just to get up to freeway speeds although I never pushed it to its limits.
It is rpm * torque at that rpm. You can't assume torque to be the same across all rpm in a gas car, it isn't (just look at the dyno plot).
This is why you have so many speed in a transmission to keep the engine in the power band if you need it, and why transmission up shift way before redline in an automatic in many speed.
But you are correct that you can use a smaller engine to get the same hp by reving up. Japanese cars in the 90s have small engine and they often run higher rpm to compensate.
This is the reason Elon is a business genius. Look at the EV before Tesla: Leaf, iMiev, eGolf, Spark, EV1, BYD whatever. They are all meh and people buy it for rational reason: cheap, carpool lane, quirky, but not sexy. People won't pay a huge premium for it and nobody would make money selling them eventually, unless they are commodity car specialist like Toyota and Honda.
You have to sell a sexy luxury car to hide a $20k battery cost effectively. Elon understands that, so he went after BMW, Audi, Mercedes, etc.
I remember my 1995 Acura Integra GS-R. Fun car, although it was 3500 RPM at 70 MPH in 5th gear. Redline was 8000 RPM with fuel cutoff just a bit higher. It got louder, but the engine was remarkably smooth all the way up to fuel cutoff.
It was ridiculously easy to figure the points for maximum acceleration. Shift just before hitting the redline and the fuel cutoff.
I miss that car. It was stolen, recovered stripped, and declared totaled by my insurance company. But it was fun while it lasted.
AZjeff
$50 Site Donor 2023
Really? So everyone wants to or should want to drive fast on public roads? EV by your definition must be high performance? I have a truck to pull a travel trailer and a Jeep for around town and the offroad driving that we enjoy. The Jeep probably does 0-60 in about a minute but performs very well in it's element. Not everyone needs to drive like Helio Castroneves or John Force to enjoy their vehicle. But that's not the point of my original question.
It seems the answer probably is the higher EV performance comes at little extra cost or little loss of potential everyday utility so why not? We're totally open to the idea of an EV replacing either vehicle we own now if our vehicle needs change but we aren't having 3.
Whole lot of truth in this post. Look at how many anti-EV posts here say when the EVs are the same price and performance as ICE the poster will think about buying one. Trade gas for electrons and keep everything else the same. The negative comments aren't they aren't fast enough.
There is zero luxury to a Tesla.
Find me an MB or BMW with an msrp over $80k. It won't be slow. Why? Because noone would buy it.
I guess my Kia is a luxury car, too. It cost more than a M3 or MY.
I agree with you and often wonder the same things.
I suspect we are correct but at this time until production ramps up it will be the "sell the sizzle" mode for EV sales. Meaning, EVs attract a lot of techies and enthusiasts at this point and premium "sizzle" models no matter how practical or not command high prices and profits.
The more down to earth models will start to appear once the market gets saturated in the high price range. I think that point will come by 2026. WIth that said, right now the EV market is already starting to slump. Think about that, even with $7,500 incentives.
Still at this point, as far as practical, well, to me until I start seeing three row SUVs with 5000+ tow ratings priced at the same price as the current ICE offerings, well I dont think that will ever happen and why I THINK the whole EV things is going to fade to the status of just a different power plant in it/differnt engine. Americans generally have a higher standard of living than much the world and they like big SUVs to drive Americas roadways, not the compact offerings of well, at this point Tesla and some others. So they ramp up the incredible power advantages and thrill of driving experience in these cars that to me, like the Model 3 remind me of the AMC/Rambler Pacer.
No one will care about 0 to 60 times, maninstream America doesnt care right now, cars are fast enough, price and utility will rule.
Even the insurance will be off the wall once people and their kids start driving into walls with these high powered monsters. I am right, I know it, heck, all one had to do is properly analyze Musk's pathetic whining when he released the third quarter results for his company. By the way, the word "whining" is not my words. Its the words of Investors Business Daily
AZjeff
$50 Site Donor 2023
Is your point that EVs currently worth owning are only higher priced performance cars? That leaves out a whole lot of potential buyers.
This thread isn't about $80k anything really. Question was if the performance of your car or a Tesla or whatever was closer to an ICE equivalent car would it be noticeably less money or have better range or whatever to make it more attractive to the public. You only want a performance car, that's cool. The vast majority of people would pin your car one time and scare themselves and never do it again.
The 576hp version of my car cost about $5k more than the 320hp version.
With how efficient EV motors are I don’t think it’s really going to matter. Sure you can dial the power way back, but it’s still going to take X amount of power to accelerate at Y rate to Z speed all else being identical. The high performance is just inherent to having all your torque at the flip of a switch.
My GT still isn't quite as efficient as the lower powered models because everything is bigger, powertrain wise. Bigger by nature means less efficient in this game.
Is this due to AWD, vs. single axle drive and the associated friction of mechanical parts, as I suspect? I don't think there is much in the way of efficiency loss with a simple higher output motor, or larger wires and controllers.
I wonder how much real world difference there is. Put both cars side by side, with the same capacity battery, same wheels and tires and take a trip. As always, it takes a certain amount of energy to do a specific amount of work.
I don't know for sure, but I suspect your car has quite sticky rolling pins for tires. (super wide, low profile) and this can cause some loss of range when compared to say, the tires and wheels on a BMW i3.
Well, the rear motor is larger. I presume this means more rotational mass. Same for the reduction unit. Also, the tires are 255/40/21 instead of 255/45/20. The larger rims matter. The weight is also slightly more due to the added cooling and beefier drivetrain components, although this weight gain is minimal Id wager. All told, Car and Driver got 190mi out of the ev6 GT at 75mph. They got 230 miles out of the ev6 Wind, with its 235 series 19" rubber and 320hp total.Is this due to AWD, vs. single axle drive and the associated friction of mechanical parts, as I suspect? I don't think there is much in the way of efficiency loss with a simple higher output motor, or larger wires and controllers.
I wonder how much real world difference there is. Put both cars side by side, with the same capacity battery, same wheels and tires and take a trip. As always, it takes a certain amount of energy to do a specific amount of work.
I don't know for sure, but I suspect your car has quite sticky rolling pins for tires. (super wide, low profile) and this can cause some loss of range when compared to say, the tires and wheels on a BMW i3.
They did not say what modes each was driven in.
This is probably my favorite thing about any quick EV. My other car seems so unnecessary at times with the hard downshifts and noise. I'm getting to the point where it's an annoyance when commuting, though I do find some fun in it when I actually want to play around. The gap is widening and I won't be buying another ICE vehicle, though I'll drive this one for at least another 3 if not 5 years.
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