Quantas A380 To Fly Again

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The whole point that I was trying to make is that the A380 makes economic sense on those routes that can support it.
I don't think that the acquiring carriers are ordering this type to enable them to lose more money.
A route having significant demand along with significant demand for premium seats will suit the A380.
A route without enough demand to fill the available seats at some reasonable fare will not suit it.
The aircraft is also not very flexible, in that I don't see it doing a quick turn to some Caribbean island while awating its evening TATL departure, for example, while a twin can be and is used that way.
If a route suffers slack seasonal demand, an airline would be better off turing away customers in peak season rather than flying a half empty behemoth during the low season.
I also understand that while fuel represents the largest single cost for a carrier, it is not the only cost, so even an aircraft with unbeatable fuel use per seat may not yield the most revenue after factoring in other costs.
Acquision costs, financing cost, maintenance expense as well as crew training training and insurance expenses all play a role.
Minor matters like clipping a CRJ at JFK or uncontained engine failures are also costs that must be considered.
There may not be all that many carriers who think that the A380 suits enough routes on their networks to make it a wise acquisition, since orders remain stuck at less that 300.
OTOH, Emirates has ordered ninety of these beasts, along with job lots of 777s and A350s and unless something goes badly awry, EK may end up as the largest international carrier in the world.
Who would have thought that DXB would emerge as a major connecting point for the entire world?
This also means, of course, that Airbus has an awful lot of eggs in one basket as far as the A380 program goes.
 
You guys are all ignoring this point: "Despite early speculation that VH-OQA would be written off, the decision was made to repair it."

After a 23 September 1999 incident in which QANTAS ran a 747 off the runway in a Bangkok rainstorm (pilot error involving a captain rejecting an FO's rejected landing, and reportedly, a spouse on the cockpit jumpseat...), the cost to return it to service was more than twice the value of the plane as a write-off...

But it's hard to put a price tag on "no hull loss ever" in the QANTAS history...
 
Both Qatar and Qantas are now delaying delivery of A380s due to the wing problems and the economy. Mean while, the A350 program is moved to the right until at least 2015. Boeing is laughing all the way to the bank with their 777 and 787 backlogs.
 
The 380 is, in many ways, a marvel of engineering...but it was years late in delivery, is 100,000 lbs overweight, and doesn't really offer anything new in terms of performance...a bit better on fuel than the 747-400...but not as good as the 787...and it doesn't have the new passenger comforts that the 787 does...

Plus, and I have to be honest here, it's a big, fat, ugly airplane when you see it on the ramp...short on promise fulfillment, and ugly to boot...I hope the A-350 is closer to the target goals...
 
When we went to the states, there was an A380 on the tarmac...you are certainly right Astro.
 
Gotta watch the zeros there a bit. I believe the A380 came in about 5 tons overweight at launch or around 10,000 lbs. Gotta feeling if it missed by 50 tons at launch there would be a bigger outcry than there is.

I believe the A380 does have a role to play (slot constrained airports come to mind, like Heathrow), but the odds of this thing ever becoming a financial success for the manufacturer seems like a pipe dream. Something Boeing acknowledged early on with planes this size - that there was a market for them, just not for as many as it would take to earn a decent profit... (for themselves - not the operators)
 
Airbus just pushed the A350 service date to 2017 again and order cancellations are coming in. From Jan 1st, Airbus sold a net of 95 aircraft versus 415 for Boeing. With the new European austerity program, Airbus is starving for subsidies.
 
I don't like the A380 look.

Love the 777, but prefer to fly A330/340, purely for the 2-4-2 abreast. Going to fly this and 777 3-3-3 in December with Singapore Airlines.

777 with 3-4-3 like emirates is soul destroying!

Have not flown the A380 and have no prospects either.
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14
You guys are all ignoring this point: "Despite early speculation that VH-OQA would be written off, the decision was made to repair it."

After a 23 September 1999 incident in which QANTAS ran a 747 off the runway in a Bangkok rainstorm (pilot error involving a captain rejecting an FO's rejected landing, and reportedly, a spouse on the cockpit jumpseat...), the cost to return it to service was more than twice the value of the plane as a write-off...

But it's hard to put a price tag on "no hull loss ever" in the QANTAS history...


Never thought of it in that light, but you speak true.
 
A380 Wing Crack Bill Tops €200 Million
AWIN First May16 , 2012
Robert Wall [email protected]
GENEVA


Airbus is taking a €158 million ($201 million) charge linked to the costs associated with wing component cracking on its A380s and expects more costs to come.

The latest charge covers repairs on 71 aircraft already delivered and adds to a €105 million charge taken in March because of the same problem. Moreover, Airbus CFO Harald Wilhelm says additional costs are due this year to cover the expense of repairing about 30 A380s being delivered this year. That could bring the bill to €260 million for 2012, he says.

Airbus has now identified a permanent repair to deal with the cracking of some of the L-shaped wing rib-feet in A380 wings, says EADS CFO Hans-Peter Ring. The fix still is subject to approval by the European Aviation Safety Agency , which will then issue another airworthiness directive. Once EASA has approved the plan, Airbus will be able to say when the repair kits will be available, Ring says.

“This final retrofit fix is more complex than initially anticipated in March,” EADS says in its first-quarter earnings statement, adding that this development is driving the €158 million charge .

Discussions are now starting with airlines on applying the permanent repair, Wilhelm says, adding, “This is a case-by-case discussion.” Implementation is expected to start toward the year-end, followed by deliveries in 2013. Forward fit of the fix will occur in parallel, with the expectation that the first aircraft with the installation will be delivered in 2014.

Qatar Airways , for instance, has said it will take A380s only once the permanent repair is installed on its aircraft. The first handover to the Middle East carrier is due next year.

The wing rib repair has affected A380 delivery plans. Airbus has temporarily slowed A380 production, the impact of which is expected to be felt in 2013.

For this year, the aircraft maker expects to hand over 30 A380s . But reaching that target is “becoming more challenging with a more back-loaded delivery pattern,” Wilhelm says.

The setback comes as Airbus was looking forward to improving profitability on the A380 program after years of sizable losses. EADS notes that “the implementation in production of the final [ wing rib crack ] fix will temporarily generate headwind on the year-on-year A380 [earnings before interest and taxes] improvement in 2012 and 2013 to account for non-recurring costs and delivery adjustments.”

However, the aerospace giant adds that “this should not jeopardize the reaching of breakeven by the beginning of 2015.” At that point, Airbus hopes to start delivering profitable aircraft; program breakeven, for which the company no longer provides data, will come several years later. The assumption of breakeven by aircraft is built on delivering 35 to 40 aircraft, Wilhelm says.

The company also says it has not settled on whether to boost A330 output to 11 aircraft a month. In March, it announced plans to do so if the dispute between international airlines and the European Union’s inclusion of aviation in its emissions trading system did not harm orders. Several Chinese commitments are on hold because of the dispute. “ Airbus continues to examine the implementation for an A330 production ramp-up,” the company’s first-quarter financial statement says. Airbus officials have signaled they are making the long-lead preparations for the higher output level.

For the A350 , the aircraft maker merely notes that the program remains “challenging.” Final assembly of the first aircraft began in April, and Wilhelm says that element of the program is progressing well.

EADS CFO Ring also dismissed claims from Boeing that Airbus has heavily discounted A320NEOs to win orders. “Everything we have contracted on the NEO is above our pricing expectations so far,” he says.

Moreover, Ring confirms “contacts” are continuing with officials in Mobile, Ala. Airbus has long considered establishing a U.S. final assembly line in the U.S. city and was going to do so if it won the U.S. KC-X tanker competition, which eventually went to Boeing . Ring , who will step down as CFO at the end of this month along with EADS CEO Louis Gallois, says any move to establish a final assembly line in Alabama will fall to the new management team, which will be headed by Tom Enders. He will take over as EADS CEO from his post as head of Airbus, where he will be succeeded by Airbus Chief Operating Officer Fabrice Bregier. Wilhelm will become CFO of both EADS and Airbus
 
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Airbus just pushed the A350 service date to 2017 again and order cancellations are coming in. From Jan 1st, Airbus sold a net of 95 aircraft versus 415 for Boeing. With the new European austerity program, Airbus is starving for subsidies.


You need a reality check.
If Airbus were in that kind of trouble, Boeing stock would be gold.
Since I own some Boeing stock, I wish you were right.
Fact is that Airbus has delivered more airlcraft each year for the past several years than has Boeing.
Deliveries are what you get paid for, not orders.
 
The problem here is you are not seeing the reality since you are not part of the process. There are only two majors, Boeing and Airbus, and neither one can deliver at the rate the market is asking for. Delivering more aircrafts at a loss is not the same as making money.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/592001-boeing-vs-airbus-orders-and-profits

I am part of the aircraft delivery process because if we don't deliver our products the aircrafts will sit at either Boeing or Airbus. We see aircraft delivery trends 4-5 years in advance.
 
You have a valid point.
Airbus and Boeing could sell many more single aisle airplanes if only they could deliver them in a more reasonable time than what it now takes to get a newly ordered A319/320, and the same is true for the 737.
It may be that Airbus has yet to make money on any A380 delivery, and Boeing won't make any money on any 787 delivery for some time.
Airbus may end up losing money on the A380 program, and the low delivery rate isn't helping.
Boeing won't make any money on the 787 program unless it sells a number of additional airplanes at better prices.
Problem is, Boeing is sold out on the 787 for a number of years, so it will be some time before the program can be profitable.
Boeing has done very well with the 777, and Airbus with the A330.
The duopoly isn't doing as well with its latest new designs.
 
There is no competition for the 787 nor the 777 from now until 2017. Boeing just opened another 777 production line and the profit from that alone is more than enough to balance the book. Airbus got nothing and that is why they are in the red until 2015 when the NEO is turning profit.
 
Airbus is not in the red, and the A330 is selling very well.
The 787 has competition from the A350, and the A330 is also a competitor, and even without competition, it is not yet a profitable program based upon orders to date.
Anyway, most of the deliveries from both airframe makers are in the single aisle segment, with the A319/320/321 and the 737-XXX running neck and neck, with current sales for each based more upon delivery dates than anything else.
 
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