QR: The A380 was a mistake

[Jimmy_Russells]

As a passenger, I like the A380. Other than 500 people waiting at the gate I guess, but once you're on the plane it is nice. I once spent over 13 hours on one on a flight from YVR to LHR (8.5 hours) because we had to land in Goose Bay for a passenger emergency.

I do find the 787 in the 3-3-3 configuration pretty cramped, however given the choice for a direct flight at a bit of a price increase I'm taking that every single time.

 

[PimTac]

I do find the 787 in the 3-3-3 configuration pretty cramped, however given the choice for a direct flight at a bit of a price increase I'm taking that every single time.

I always try to get a aisle seat in the middle section. You will be the least disturbed in those.

 

[Astro14]

More detail on the 787 systems architecture:

https://www.boeing.com/commercial/a...uSVAMJYa-FmyXYDuYDEZNPjwTjCPdhDgFJpHQ8CGbvpj8

 

[y_p_w]

More detail on the 787 systems architecture:

https://www.boeing.com/commercial/a...uSVAMJYa-FmyXYDuYDEZNPjwTjCPdhDgFJpHQ8CGbvpj8

No mention of their battery issues though. I get that the use of battery power was supposed to be more efficient, but they had some QC issues and I guess had to add a containment unit in case of battery fire.

 

[Astro14]

Battery issues were solved long ago. After that was written, I think, but several years ago.

 

[4wd]

Battery issues were solved long ago. After that was written, I think, but several years ago.

Yeah … I passed thru NRT back when that happened … both Japanese carriers had them parked for the retrofit

 

[edyvw]

When A350 was rolled out of hangar for the first time, it was nail in the coffin for A380.

 

[nthach]

It is my understanding that the A380 cannot be converted to freight usage. That was another blunder by Airbus.

UPS and FedEx signed an agreement with Airbus for A380Fs but cancelled their orders. They ended ordering more 767s or 747Fs/777Fs. The 747 offers flexibility for cargo, the 777 offers economic benefits.


Boeing is offering a conversion program for the 777. Seeing the amount of older 777s leaving passenger service, it makes sense for Boeing to do that.

However, with Amazon beefing up their air cargo, maybe the A380 could have a second life as a freighter - if they can re-engineer the former SQ/AF planes?

 

[nthach]

OTOH, the A320 series is Airbus’ bread and butter but the A350XWB is IMO giving Boeing some indigestion. Especially with landing a few orders with CX/DL.

 

[kschachn]

UPS and FedEx signed an agreement with Airbus for A380Fs but cancelled their orders. They ended ordering more 767s or 747Fs/777Fs. The 747 offers flexibility for cargo, the 777 offers economic benefits.

Boeing is offering a conversion program for the 777. Seeing the amount of older 777s leaving passenger service, it makes sense for Boeing to do that.

However, with Amazon beefing up their air cargo, maybe the A380 could have a second life as a freighter - if they can re-engineer the former SQ/AF planes?

The enormous volume of the fuselage is a disadvantage with the A380, you run up against the MGTOW well before the space is filled. Somebody may do it anyway but it'll never be optimal.

 

[PimTac]

The enormous volume of the fuselage is a disadvantage with the A380, you run up against the MGTOW well before the space is filled. Somebody may do it anyway but it'll never be optimal.

I found this article on the disadvantages of converting the A380 to a freighter.


https://simpleflying.com/why-existing-airbus-a380s-wont-be-converted-to-freighters/

 

[kschachn]

I found this article on the disadvantages of converting the A380 to a freighter.


https://simpleflying.com/why-existing-airbus-a380s-wont-be-converted-to-freighters/

Thanks for the link, yes a high BEW is a good way to look at it. You're flying around all that fuselage weight which means you can't carry enough payload to fill the volume. It's just too big for its own good.

 

[Mr.GTRSpecV]

First mistake was creating a quad passenger jet, when the Boeing 777 and a330 were already making headway and the 787 and a350 were being drawn up.

Second mistake was notifying airports that they needed to do extra prep and construction to accomodate the a380.

This was a competition and Boeing won in the sense that Airbus bought their bluff and pissed capital on R&D.

As for Qatar, quality airline, bad purchase decision, same can b said for Emirates. Singapore, Cathay, Emirates, Turkish and Lufthansa when I fly. Use to be a fan of B.A but their service has been on the decline for ages, plus Heathrow is gross compared to the hubs of the airlines mentioned above.

 

[y_p_w]

I think there was a time when it was thought that larger aircraft might be able to deal with limited slots - i.e. an A380 can fly more passengers than a 777. Not sure what happened with that other than passenger traffic has gone down.

 

[ccs368]

Akbar Al Baker made a corporate decision and has to live with it plain and simple. It could have been the other way around and deemed a CEO hero crying we don’t have enough a380s when times were great. But air travel is so cyclical and thus easy to make a statement like that to save face. He has to take partial blame because the decision for the foundry of the a380 was the airlines and not as so much Airbus. Airbus had a proposition to one up Boeing capacity race and would not have developed it without buyers. So the dozen or so airlines and respected CEOs made a decision to preorder based on travel tendencies for the next foreseeable decade. Prior to that, Boeing was developing the idea of the double decker and dropped out. So perhaps this should have been a hint as to what the voice of the customers were saying. So interestingly enough, the big 6 or maybe big 3 today for the US airlines did not use the a380 and just continued to roll with the existing 747s. So a critical travel country back in the 90s already had the sound of mind that the a380 did not fit their fleet and travel philosophy. Another indicator that a380 customers did not analyze in detail or consider a future travel concept starting to change.

What didn’t help the a380 was how prolong and late their schedule when finally approved to launch the a380. By late 2007, Singapore took receipt with their launch partner. If they got the plane to market 4-5 years earlier…the impact would be more receptive when hub and spoke travel was still the way to travel.

If Akbar Al Baker wants to blame anything, he should blame ETOPS, right? When the twins demonstrated safe capability to fly trans Atlantic and trans Pacific flights without “hugging” the coast to have immediate access to emergency airports from 90 to 120 to 180 to 240 to 330min was the final straw to quad or tri jets significance to air travel. This was going on from like the 70s. Hello, technology is improving so isn’t this writing on the wall that quads and tri‘s we’re going to be obsolete?

Qatar airways does have narrow body short/medium range jets to support regional market where Ethiad is much more smaller, and Emirates has none in their fleet so he should feel lucky that other airlines could be in much dire situations.

 

[4wd]

They all buy seats for these planes … just had a nice and spacious bulkhead single window seat on an AA B773 …
(1-2-1 cabin)… Lie flat … nice screen … all that … And that’s what matters to me …