Purolator pulling a FRAM???

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Anybody else notice the sudden influx of Purolator lovers once the Germans bought them? Americans may be good enough for unskilled tasks such as assembling oil filters, but you need German brains behind the operation.
 
Wow.

I'm pretty sure that the general design and construction of the Purolator filters hasn't changed in at least a decade. The pros and cons they have today are no different from those of 5 or 10 years ago.

Your reasons against them are about as wide-ranging as there are colors in the rainbow. Let's just all acknowledge that you don't like them and move on.

Geez...
 
Originally Posted By: labman
Anybody else notice the sudden influx of Purolator lovers once the Germans bought them?

Well, this is a new one. As you well know, Bosch bought Purolator years ago. There is nothing 'sudden' about users liking their products, try as you might to make it sound otherwise.

Originally Posted By: labman
Americans may be good enough for unskilled tasks such as assembling oil filters, but you need German brains behind the operation.

See, this is what really grinds my gears about your anti-Purolator posts. Why are you acting like Bosch has purchased Purolator, completely gutted the company's management tree, has taken over all of the design, testing and marketing departments and moved it to the Fatherland, and has left only the Purolator manufacturing facilities here in the US to be run by a skeleton crew of poor, underpaid American workers?

Why are you so convinced that Purolator (and in essence, American workers) is just being 'used' by Bosch, and all of the profits are now going back to a select few German suits?

This isn't difficult to understand. Bosch wanted to be a bigger player in the oil filter market, so they bought the oldest and arguably most well-known brand here in the States (possibly even worldwide) since it was on the market: Purolator. Purolator has the means and the know-how to crank out quality oil filters of varying price points to be sold as Purolators or any other brand they wish to label them as. They have decades of experience and have the manufacturing process working like a big Swiss watch. Now with Bosch's ownership, more Purolator-made products are being sold here and abroad, making Purolator even bigger than it was and helping everyone involved make more money... including all of the American engineers, product planners, testers, marketing specialists, and yes, factory workers. Everybody wins. Crazy, huh?

I sincerely doubt that the blue-collar American worker is getting screwed hard and deep by Bosch like you seem to think they are, and want everyone else to believe also.
 
Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
Originally Posted By: labman
Anybody else notice the sudden influx of Purolator lovers once the Germans bought them?

Well, this is a new one. As you well know, Bosch bought Purolator years ago. There is nothing 'sudden' about users liking their products, try as you might to make it sound otherwise.
New tact, same
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drivel. I hadn't noticed that bogus 'sudden' gibberish either.
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Originally Posted By: labman
Anybody else notice the sudden influx of Purolator lovers once the Germans bought them? Americans may be good enough for unskilled tasks such as assembling oil filters, but you need German brains behind the operation.


No, but I have noticed that a handful of people spend 99% of their time and make 99% of their posts in the oil filters forum... and these users do this mostly defending one particular oil filter manufacturer ; )

I for one don't care who owns Purolator, who owns Wix, who owns Champion Labs, who owns Fram, etc... What I do care about is using a product that works well in my application, and does so at a reasonable price... Construction, efficiency, flow characteristics, longevity, price, and availability should all be taken into consideration, and these factors will vary by manufacturer, application, and region. I also care about supporting companies who continually produce high quality parts.
 
I never had too much fanboydom for filters, but it sure seems that there is some boldly apparent thing for Purolators.

I'm surely passionate about filtration. I've got just about every kinda of filter that there is (hydraulic, high pressure hydraulic, tp, cotton wound, BIG, small, Magnefine's ...etc.)

..but really have no allegiance to any of them. Even the EaO won't work for a bunch of people.

Now if you assert that you're just a "counter"-labman, it still wouldn't explain the mentality that Purolators are good and that all others are junk or have some unfavorable aspect to them whenever compared to them.

That would be totally irrational, but it's not all that uncommon after I've seen a few domestic vs. Asian design bickering debates. I can't quite figure them out either.

No company is going to have a competitive advantage for too long in the market. If they've got a market share worth having, someone is itching to dethrone them.

Purolator makes a great filter at a good value. I don't know what requires some to genuflect every time you see a post about it.
 
It wouldn't be irrational to inject some off topic comment regarding Purolator ownership into every Purolator filter thread and many others?

If it is my opinion that some aspect of a filter preferable to me over another then that's my choice as I've never said all that all others are junk. Perhaps you have me confused with someone else. Now I have asserted that value for construction and cost benefit are important to me.

I suppose though promoting or defending Puorlator oil filters is very similar to those who would promote/defend Auto RX over say MMO on the oil additives board and that or vice versa goes on there all the time. That said, if I had an issue with it I'd choose not to that participate in the discussion and move on. And surely, I'd never think of telling posters there they are fanboys of one product over the other on that at board. Not sure what the difference here is though, I'd say the reasoning there is the same here.
 
Well, first, consider that I may have hit the last open text box ..and that while I was posting (somewhere between 3:40 and 3:53) danthaman1980 posted, otherwise you would be assuming that I was directing my post to him.

..but on this line of thinking, anyone can like their filter or product of choice. There's really not much issue with that.

It often comes down to defensive posturing and aggressive "anti" posturing.


Concede or remain silent on given truths.

Quote:
I suppose though promoting or defending Puorlator oil filters is very similar to those who would promote/defend Auto RX over say MMO on the oil additives board and that or vice versa goes on there all the time.


This was the all time whacked out mania bash party that absolutely no one engaging in it appeared aware of their whacked behavior. There was a vicious malevolence involved in that whole thing that was totally insane. People didn't care for Frank's madness, so they combated it with their own as soon as they could. It was the finest showing of class and civil demeanor by so many. It made every poster who had something good to say just remain silent since they were assured to get run out of the thread on a rail by "the crew".

The love affair with MMO surely can't be ignored either.

Again, if they had issue with Frank (and many surely could) then they could shout all day that he was a crazy geezer and I really don't think anyone could argue with them.

Nope, it was a mania that really had no plausible explanation from truly rational people.

In the case of the Purolator fandom (again, I think they're a good filter) one could expound on all kinds of stats and whatnot ..hanging your hat on them, if you will, yet never having to rationalize them for merit. Much like Amsoil is constantly bashed for the 4 ball wear test.

Yet anyone attempting to challenge the relevance of such stats gets the rail from the Purocrew.

They're not satisfied with having it (PureOne) being a great value. It has to be the ONLY filter on the planet.

Again, I never understood fanboy behavior. Every manufacturer of anything has had their failures. MOPAR, GM,
Ford, Toyota, ..even Honda ...and I really doubt that Purolator has only made perfect filters.

Concede where concession is due. The next time we see a Purolator defect, it hardly needs defending as "Well, at least it's not going to blah-blah-blah" ..it's defective ..get over it.

Or not.

Again, read the first paragraph.
 
Originally Posted By: minnesotatv
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Its just a very bit shorter, won't make any difference


the new L34631 I bought last week is 1" shorter
than last years L34631. 5.25" vs 4.25".


Yeah I noticed this as well. Picked up some filters today and they are a full 1" shorter. Hope it doesn't hurt things.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Wow.

I'm pretty sure that the general design and construction of the Purolator filters hasn't changed in at least a decade. The pros and cons they have today are no different from those of 5 or 10 years ago.

Your reasons against them are about as wide-ranging as there are colors in the rainbow. Let's just all acknowledge that you don't like them and move on.

Geez...


I used Purolater Filters several years ago, I think an improvement in the last few years is the quality of the center tube with a better design, I feel the down grade is the by pass valve, the Purolater Filters used to have them up front on the open end of the filter canister like WIX Filters and that is where they cheapened out in recent years by discontinuing that design.
 
Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
Originally Posted By: minnesotatv
Remember when FRAM shortened up the can on their filters for 2.2L Chrysler engines which impeded the oil flow and starved a whole bunch of those engines to death?


First I heard of it, and I owned a 2.2-powered Sundance for about a decade. Did you hear that from someone who heard it from someone else who knows a mechanic who read it online somewhere?

Originally Posted By: minnesotatv
What the **** is Purolator thinking???


How about "Let's try to lower our manufacturing costs since the economy is tanking and supplies are expensive, and we have the know-how to make a product as good as it used to be with better yet less media"?


And one that takes up less room to ship because gas is 4 bucks a gallon?

John
 
Everybody is shrinking products.

Raise the price or shrink the product.

When you makes millions of these things a year saving costs in materials adds up.
 
I don't believe that a "new" shorter design necessarily means decreased filtering or a poorer filter design. They may increase the length of the filter media to compensate for the loss in height. Thus keeping the same square footage. Or they might change the media to a better filtering one. For me the shorter FL820S just make it tougher because it becomes harder to grasp to remove and install, but more harder to remove. I just checked an old FL820S against the new "shorter" one and it's around a half inch shorter at the ribs on the new one. The Mobil 1 equivalent is the same size as the new FL820S.

Whimsey
 
Originally Posted By: labman
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Originally Posted By: defektes
Originally Posted By: sayjac

Lastly, when I read the title I thought it was about Purolator switching to the use of "engineered media" as endcaps rather then metal. Now that would really be call for alarm.
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I would have LAUGHED my you know what off.


Or even worse, "engineered media" end caps with Ecore tube! ...
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I am sure the engineers in Germany are playing catch up with Champ now. It is only a matter of time.

Just to clear things up....Purolators are made in the USA (North Carolina)....but the company was sold to to Bosch (German) a few years back.

You would only be speculating that 'German engineers' are making those changes.

IMO...Purolator filters gives the 'best bang for the buck'....and is made by Americans.
 
Here is the initial announcement of Purolator changing hands. For those that weren't aware Purolator was on the verge of closing their doors due to poor sales and was purchased for a song.

Stuttgart/Ludwigsburg, February 23, 2006 - the Bosch Group and MANN+HUMMEL plan to acquire the Purolator filter business from ArvinMeritor on or about April 1st, 2006. The business will be continued as a 50:50 joint venture company from that date. The acquisition covers all Purolator oil, air, fuel and cabin filters. The company has around 1,000 associates. At its site in Fayetteville, North Carolina, it produces filters for both the OE and aftermarket sectors, and at its site in Salt Lake City, Utah, it maintains a small distribution center.

So this is who owns the Purolator name now. You guys don't really want to know what is discussed in the meetings when the Germans come to town. To put it softly, Purolator doesn't generate enough profit to afford greatly needed upgrades to the Fayetteville factory. A previous post on the board addressing a compromised Purolator oil filter is far too common and these issues are discussed daily in Fayetteville among the engineering staff. This is NOT a uncommon event.

Purolator is used purely for a market penetration tool. Sorry but it's just a fact.
 
Originally Posted By: FowVay
A previous post on the board addressing a compromised Purolator oil filter is far too common and these issues are discussed daily in Fayetteville among the engineering staff. This is NOT a uncommon event.


Purolator will be getting the info of the media tear failure, and maybe the Engineering Staff can learn something from it. All filter makers have their "issues".
 
The infomation posted above regarding the Purolator purchase from Arvin by Bosch and Mann&Hummell in Feb 06 is nothing new and has been posted here, including this link to the announcement, numerous times previously.

And for the sake of fairness let's go on and add the Fram was sold to a Rank Group NZ (appropriate name IMO) by Honeywell just this year. Also Wix filters was purchased from Dana by Affina group in 2004. So it would seem that any implied uniqueness to Purolator filters being acquired by another company purely as a marketing tool would not fit. It seems that the filter making busines as a whole, not just Purolator, is not profitable enough to stand on it's own.

Being solely a purchaser of Purolator oil filters, I don't pretend or represent to know what goes on in any corporate meetings, when any acquiring group, not just Germans, buys a company. Based on the ownership facts above, I assume the margins on ALL filters are pretty thin. The fact remains that Purolators oil filters are still in the USA, and as with any mass produced product, will have an issue from time to time. So I have less interest in who owns the company, than whether am I getting my dollars worth for the product I'm using. As for the Purolator filters I've used to this point, yes would be the answer. But are they perfect, no. However, having recently lost an entire engine (and vehicle) on a Nissan Altima, due to a known defect across two model years, somehow a $3-5 oil filter is not high up on the concern list of an occasional defect. To follow the previously posted logic, one can only imagine what the "French" said when they acquired a majority stake in Nissan, but I digress.

Back to the real topic of the thread. As I said, the only way the title works for me is if Purolator had announced it eliminated the metal endcaps, and gone to Frams "engineered media" fiber endcaps. And, that hasn't happened. Even some of Motorcraft's spec'd filters have gone shorter. The simple answer is, if the OEM filter is still longer for the OP's app, then that's what he should use. If not, then it's not an issue since it would seem, like the Motorcraft FL 820-S, that the application has gotten shorter. And certainly not accurate based on the provocative title.
 
Good points sayjac. I agree and I use mostly Purolator filters because they do appear to be a decent filter at a reasonable price and I do like that they are made in the USA - at least the ones for my vehicles.
 
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I wouldn't be suprised if they combined two filter numbers in to one current filter. One of the filters may have needed a shorter can for clearance. This would save them production, inventory, and warehousing costs.
 
Originally Posted By: sayjac
So it would seem that any implied uniqueness to Purolator filters being acquired by another company purely as a marketing tool would not fit.


You didn't read my words. I said the factory was purchased for "Market Penetration".. not marketing. Bosch and Mann+Hummel wanted to increase their name and sales in the NAFTA trade region and this was the cheapest way to do it.

The Purolator factory is gigantic. It's one of, if not THE largest facilities of it's kind in the world. Capacity is HUGE there.

It only made sense for someone to capitalize on this opportunity. If any of you live in Fayetteville you know what role this factory plays in the local economy. It's great that it is there but it's contribution is dwarfed by the other large employer in the area - Fort Bragg.

I submitted a proposal to marketing at Purolator to implement a patriotic theme for the products. The idea was to print a picture and give a brief history of the most famous military units that make up Fort Bragg. It would have been a short-term project done to judge this type of reactionary purchase. Twelve units chosen with the most famous driving the campaign and introduced on a monthly basis for one year.

My idea was deemed too political. I thought it was fantastic! haha
 
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