Someone commented awhile ago that if the pulsation was in the pedal it meant one thing, if in the steering wheel it meant another. I tried some searches and could not find it.
So say again?
So say again?
pulsation in brakes
- Thread starter Donald
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If it shakes the steering wheel its front brakes, it the car vibrates or you feel it in the seat of your pants its usually rear. Sometimes both
Originally Posted By: MONKEYMAN
My experience was too much run out in hub. Three sets of rotors all had pulsation after 5,000 miles. I put a shim on my hub and corrected the problem.
but the first 5,000 miles after rotor replacement didn't show any pulsation, right? This is what I find weird. If it ain't the brakes that are causing the pulsation, you'd put on new rotors and instantly get the same pulsating feeling. If it's butter smooth for 5,000 miles and then returns, it sounds like rotors or pads are at fault.
What type of shim did you use? Got a link or picture?
My experience was too much run out in hub. Three sets of rotors all had pulsation after 5,000 miles. I put a shim on my hub and corrected the problem.
but the first 5,000 miles after rotor replacement didn't show any pulsation, right? This is what I find weird. If it ain't the brakes that are causing the pulsation, you'd put on new rotors and instantly get the same pulsating feeling. If it's butter smooth for 5,000 miles and then returns, it sounds like rotors or pads are at fault.
What type of shim did you use? Got a link or picture?
Originally Posted By: MONKEYMAN
My experience was too much run out in hub. Three sets of rotors all had pulsation after 5,000 miles. I put a shim on my hub and corrected the problem.
Did you measure the runout in the hub? Did you try and re-index the rotor?
My experience was too much run out in hub. Three sets of rotors all had pulsation after 5,000 miles. I put a shim on my hub and corrected the problem.
Did you measure the runout in the hub? Did you try and re-index the rotor?
Originally Posted By: Artem
but the first 5,000 miles after rotor replacement didn't show any pulsation, right? This is what I find weird. If it ain't the brakes that are causing the pulsation, you'd put on new rotors and instantly get the same pulsating feeling.
Nope, you wouldn't normally get instant pedal pulsation with excessive hub or rotor runout.
Perhaps you would if the runout was hugely out of spec, but I never read about that.
What happens is the runout causes the rotors to wear unevenly, leading to thickness variations. The thickness variations cause the pedal pulsation. That's why it takes a while to develop.
More infor on runout (and other causes of pedal pulsation) in this document from Raybestos:
http://www.raybestos.com/wps/wcm/connect...pdf?MOD=AJPERES
but the first 5,000 miles after rotor replacement didn't show any pulsation, right? This is what I find weird. If it ain't the brakes that are causing the pulsation, you'd put on new rotors and instantly get the same pulsating feeling.
Nope, you wouldn't normally get instant pedal pulsation with excessive hub or rotor runout.
Perhaps you would if the runout was hugely out of spec, but I never read about that.
What happens is the runout causes the rotors to wear unevenly, leading to thickness variations. The thickness variations cause the pedal pulsation. That's why it takes a while to develop.
More infor on runout (and other causes of pedal pulsation) in this document from Raybestos:
http://www.raybestos.com/wps/wcm/connect...pdf?MOD=AJPERES
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Originally Posted By: MONKEYMAN
My experience was too much run out in hub. Three sets of rotors all had pulsation after 5,000 miles. I put a shim on my hub and corrected the problem.
Interesting that every one of our cars and fleet trucks except one have sealed hubs with 'hat' rotors and we have never experienced this issue. If/when we experience pulsation it is always related to pad deposits welded into the rotor face.
Maybe this is a rust belt issue for the northerners?
My experience was too much run out in hub. Three sets of rotors all had pulsation after 5,000 miles. I put a shim on my hub and corrected the problem.
Interesting that every one of our cars and fleet trucks except one have sealed hubs with 'hat' rotors and we have never experienced this issue. If/when we experience pulsation it is always related to pad deposits welded into the rotor face.
Maybe this is a rust belt issue for the northerners?
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: MONKEYMAN
My experience was too much run out in hub. Three sets of rotors all had pulsation after 5,000 miles. I put a shim on my hub and corrected the problem.
Interesting that every one of our cars and fleet trucks except one have sealed hubs with 'hat' rotors and we have never experienced this issue. If/when we experience pulsation it is always related to pad deposits welded into the rotor face.
Maybe this is a rust belt issue for the northerners?
In my experience, rust on rotors does cause a LOT of vibration.
I've done a few brake jobs (on vehicles that weren't mine) where the rotors were not warped, but just so rusty from the vehicle sitting repeatedly.
When I was in college, my Taurus sat 2-3 weeks at a time. I am a very light driver. Usually twice a year, I'd have to knock a rust ridge off the outer edge of the rotor and take 60 grit sandpaper to the surface (front and back). Once I did that, the rotors were smooth as could be.
Originally Posted By: MONKEYMAN
My experience was too much run out in hub. Three sets of rotors all had pulsation after 5,000 miles. I put a shim on my hub and corrected the problem.
Interesting that every one of our cars and fleet trucks except one have sealed hubs with 'hat' rotors and we have never experienced this issue. If/when we experience pulsation it is always related to pad deposits welded into the rotor face.
Maybe this is a rust belt issue for the northerners?
In my experience, rust on rotors does cause a LOT of vibration.
I've done a few brake jobs (on vehicles that weren't mine) where the rotors were not warped, but just so rusty from the vehicle sitting repeatedly.
When I was in college, my Taurus sat 2-3 weeks at a time. I am a very light driver. Usually twice a year, I'd have to knock a rust ridge off the outer edge of the rotor and take 60 grit sandpaper to the surface (front and back). Once I did that, the rotors were smooth as could be.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: MONKEYMAN
My experience was too much run out in hub. Three sets of rotors all had pulsation after 5,000 miles. I put a shim on my hub and corrected the problem.
Interesting that every one of our cars and fleet trucks except one have sealed hubs with 'hat' rotors and we have never experienced this issue. If/when we experience pulsation it is always related to pad deposits welded into the rotor face.
Maybe this is a rust belt issue for the northerners?
How do you resolve or prevent the problem?
Originally Posted By: MONKEYMAN
My experience was too much run out in hub. Three sets of rotors all had pulsation after 5,000 miles. I put a shim on my hub and corrected the problem.
Interesting that every one of our cars and fleet trucks except one have sealed hubs with 'hat' rotors and we have never experienced this issue. If/when we experience pulsation it is always related to pad deposits welded into the rotor face.
Maybe this is a rust belt issue for the northerners?
How do you resolve or prevent the problem?
Originally Posted By: Donald
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: MONKEYMAN
My experience was too much run out in hub. Three sets of rotors all had pulsation after 5,000 miles. I put a shim on my hub and corrected the problem.
Interesting that every one of our cars and fleet trucks except one have sealed hubs with 'hat' rotors and we have never experienced this issue. If/when we experience pulsation it is always related to pad deposits welded into the rotor face.
Maybe this is a rust belt issue for the northerners?
How do you resolve or prevent the problem?
The trick is to brake hard enough to heat the rotor up , but not enough to warp it.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: MONKEYMAN
My experience was too much run out in hub. Three sets of rotors all had pulsation after 5,000 miles. I put a shim on my hub and corrected the problem.
Interesting that every one of our cars and fleet trucks except one have sealed hubs with 'hat' rotors and we have never experienced this issue. If/when we experience pulsation it is always related to pad deposits welded into the rotor face.
Maybe this is a rust belt issue for the northerners?
How do you resolve or prevent the problem?
The trick is to brake hard enough to heat the rotor up , but not enough to warp it.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: MONKEYMAN
My experience was too much run out in hub. Three sets of rotors all had pulsation after 5,000 miles. I put a shim on my hub and corrected the problem.
Interesting that every one of our cars and fleet trucks except one have sealed hubs with 'hat' rotors and we have never experienced this issue. If/when we experience pulsation it is always related to pad deposits welded into the rotor face.
Maybe this is a rust belt issue for the northerners?
Rust does a number, especially on infrequently used vehicles where rust can really build up on rotors.
With that said, my GM truck warps (or causes excessive runout, however you prefer) rotors constantly, causing a pedal pulse. The Powerslots I have on there now are the first ones to make it past 20,000 miles in over 380,000 miles of driving. I can't believe I'm the only one with this problem.
Originally Posted By: MONKEYMAN
My experience was too much run out in hub. Three sets of rotors all had pulsation after 5,000 miles. I put a shim on my hub and corrected the problem.
Interesting that every one of our cars and fleet trucks except one have sealed hubs with 'hat' rotors and we have never experienced this issue. If/when we experience pulsation it is always related to pad deposits welded into the rotor face.
Maybe this is a rust belt issue for the northerners?
Rust does a number, especially on infrequently used vehicles where rust can really build up on rotors.
With that said, my GM truck warps (or causes excessive runout, however you prefer) rotors constantly, causing a pedal pulse. The Powerslots I have on there now are the first ones to make it past 20,000 miles in over 380,000 miles of driving. I can't believe I'm the only one with this problem.
Sorry for late reply. The answer to a lot of questions about my experience is here: Rethinking vibration
I think part of problem was rust on hub after changing rotors. The main problem may be hitting curbs. Either way re-indexing did not put in spec. I ordered wrong size of shim from Napa and barely got it within spec. Thicker shim would have been better. I tried hard braking with 3 sets of rotors to remove pad material. Last set of rotors with the most pulsation was the premium ones from Napa. My whole car was literally shaking when braking around town. My entry level Advance rotors are doing fine.
I think part of problem was rust on hub after changing rotors. The main problem may be hitting curbs. Either way re-indexing did not put in spec. I ordered wrong size of shim from Napa and barely got it within spec. Thicker shim would have been better. I tried hard braking with 3 sets of rotors to remove pad material. Last set of rotors with the most pulsation was the premium ones from Napa. My whole car was literally shaking when braking around town. My entry level Advance rotors are doing fine.
Originally Posted By: MONKEYMAN
Sorry for late reply. The answer to a lot of questions about my experience is here: Rethinking vibration
I think part of problem was rust on hub after changing rotors. The main problem may be hitting curbs. Either way re-indexing did not put in spec. I ordered wrong size of shim from Napa and barely got it within spec. Thicker shim would have been better. I tried hard braking with 3 sets of rotors to remove pad material. Last set of rotors with the most pulsation was the premium ones from Napa. My whole car was literally shaking when braking around town. My entry level Advance rotors are doing fine.
OK, I am thinking excessive runout is causing the parallelism problem that was mentioned.
So I first need to measure runout of the hub. Then the rotor. But I assume to measure runout of the rotor I need to have it resurfaces or a new one?
Sorry for late reply. The answer to a lot of questions about my experience is here: Rethinking vibration
I think part of problem was rust on hub after changing rotors. The main problem may be hitting curbs. Either way re-indexing did not put in spec. I ordered wrong size of shim from Napa and barely got it within spec. Thicker shim would have been better. I tried hard braking with 3 sets of rotors to remove pad material. Last set of rotors with the most pulsation was the premium ones from Napa. My whole car was literally shaking when braking around town. My entry level Advance rotors are doing fine.
OK, I am thinking excessive runout is causing the parallelism problem that was mentioned.
So I first need to measure runout of the hub. Then the rotor. But I assume to measure runout of the rotor I need to have it resurfaces or a new one?
Monkeyman's story proves that many people can imagine they have 'warped' rotors when in reality it is something else entirely.
Makes me glad I live in FL. Guys with a car like mine up north have problems with the brembo pistons developing corrosion, and my car is an August 05 purchase with no issues at all.
Makes me glad I live in FL. Guys with a car like mine up north have problems with the brembo pistons developing corrosion, and my car is an August 05 purchase with no issues at all.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Monkeyman's story proves that many people can imagine they have 'warped' rotors when in reality it is something else entirely.
Makes me glad I live in FL. Guys with a car like mine up north have problems with the brembo pistons developing corrosion, and my car is an August 05 purchase with no issues at all.
It's easy enough to see a warped rotor when it's on the lathe.
Monkeyman's story proves that many people can imagine they have 'warped' rotors when in reality it is something else entirely.
Makes me glad I live in FL. Guys with a car like mine up north have problems with the brembo pistons developing corrosion, and my car is an August 05 purchase with no issues at all.
It's easy enough to see a warped rotor when it's on the lathe.
In my experience, I have never felt warped REAR rotors. If the rear rotors were warped, the viberation never made it to me or my occupents.
I have only felt the front rotors warpage in in the brake pedal and/or steering wheel. But, depending ont the severity of the warpage, I didn't always feel the vibe/shake in the steering wheel but, always in the pedal.
Again in my experience, Toyotas always seemed very forgiving in this area compared to other vehicles that I've owned/driven, allowing me to push them further before replaceing parts.
I have only felt the front rotors warpage in in the brake pedal and/or steering wheel. But, depending ont the severity of the warpage, I didn't always feel the vibe/shake in the steering wheel but, always in the pedal.
Again in my experience, Toyotas always seemed very forgiving in this area compared to other vehicles that I've owned/driven, allowing me to push them further before replaceing parts.
Originally Posted By: cchase
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: MONKEYMAN
My experience was too much run out in hub. Three sets of rotors all had pulsation after 5,000 miles. I put a shim on my hub and corrected the problem.
Interesting that every one of our cars and fleet trucks except one have sealed hubs with 'hat' rotors and we have never experienced this issue. If/when we experience pulsation it is always related to pad deposits welded into the rotor face.
Maybe this is a rust belt issue for the northerners?
Rust does a number, especially on infrequently used vehicles where rust can really build up on rotors.
With that said, my GM truck warps (or causes excessive runout, however you prefer) rotors constantly, causing a pedal pulse. The Powerslots I have on there now are the first ones to make it past 20,000 miles in over 380,000 miles of driving. I can't believe I'm the only one with this problem.
I just had that problem with a very slight pulsation in my pedal of my 2012 Silverado, but went away because of what I think was rust on the rotors form setting. Sometimes the truck sets for 2 weeks.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: MONKEYMAN
My experience was too much run out in hub. Three sets of rotors all had pulsation after 5,000 miles. I put a shim on my hub and corrected the problem.
Interesting that every one of our cars and fleet trucks except one have sealed hubs with 'hat' rotors and we have never experienced this issue. If/when we experience pulsation it is always related to pad deposits welded into the rotor face.
Maybe this is a rust belt issue for the northerners?
Rust does a number, especially on infrequently used vehicles where rust can really build up on rotors.
With that said, my GM truck warps (or causes excessive runout, however you prefer) rotors constantly, causing a pedal pulse. The Powerslots I have on there now are the first ones to make it past 20,000 miles in over 380,000 miles of driving. I can't believe I'm the only one with this problem.
I just had that problem with a very slight pulsation in my pedal of my 2012 Silverado, but went away because of what I think was rust on the rotors form setting. Sometimes the truck sets for 2 weeks.
Originally Posted By: cchase
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Monkeyman's story proves that many people can imagine they have 'warped' rotors when in reality it is something else entirely.
Makes me glad I live in FL. Guys with a car like mine up north have problems with the brembo pistons developing corrosion, and my car is an August 05 purchase with no issues at all.
It's easy enough to see a warped rotor when it's on the lathe.
It's very possible you were looking at rotors that had thickness variation caused by runout. If the rotor is thicker and thinner, the bit will hit the high spots first, making you think it's "warped," when it's really thickness variation.
These are all the reasons people always say "warped rotors," when the causes are very possibly other things.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Monkeyman's story proves that many people can imagine they have 'warped' rotors when in reality it is something else entirely.
Makes me glad I live in FL. Guys with a car like mine up north have problems with the brembo pistons developing corrosion, and my car is an August 05 purchase with no issues at all.
It's easy enough to see a warped rotor when it's on the lathe.
It's very possible you were looking at rotors that had thickness variation caused by runout. If the rotor is thicker and thinner, the bit will hit the high spots first, making you think it's "warped," when it's really thickness variation.
These are all the reasons people always say "warped rotors," when the causes are very possibly other things.
Pulsation in the steering wheel while braking can be a sticky caliper--I had one on an old F150. Pulsation in the wheel all the time is probably wheel balance.
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