Pulled the trigger on some. Michelin xice xi2's

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Originally Posted By: sciphi
Wow, a rare DTD fail. They've sent me hub-centric rings with both sets of wheels ordered from them.

apparantly the rims wont work with centering rings.

I called DTD and he said the rims wont mount flush with centering rings due to the fail design.
 
Originally Posted By: SubLGT
[...........Just as an example, for braking on snow from 80 km/hr, the Xi2 required 54.9m, and the HakkaR required 54.7m. For accelerating on snow, it was 5.2 sec vs 5.1 sec. ...................................................I haven't examined all the data in detail, but so far my impression is that the Xi2 is significantly stronger on ice than the HakkaR, but is slightly weaker on snow and slightly weaker on wet braking...........


The perplexing thing about the Michelin X-Ice Xi2 is that it tests decently on snow, not class leading, but still good. Yet if you look at customer reviews at Tire Rack, and especially at 1010 Tires, you will find lots of complaints about poor snow traction (and you will also find praise for its snow traction from some customers).

Another customer complaint about the Xi2 is poor resistance to hydroplaning, a trait that also shows up on some of the tests I have seen. The Hakka R is also weak in this area.
 
Originally Posted By: SubLGT
Originally Posted By: SubLGT
[...........Just as an example, for braking on snow from 80 km/hr, the Xi2 required 54.9m, and the HakkaR required 54.7m. For accelerating on snow, it was 5.2 sec vs 5.1 sec. ...................................................I haven't examined all the data in detail, but so far my impression is that the Xi2 is significantly stronger on ice than the HakkaR, but is slightly weaker on snow and slightly weaker on wet braking...........


The perplexing thing about the Michelin X-Ice Xi2 is that it tests decently on snow, not class leading, but still good. Yet if you look at customer reviews at Tire Rack, and especially at 1010 Tires, you will find lots of complaints about poor snow traction (and you will also find praise for its snow traction from some customers).

Another customer complaint about the Xi2 is poor resistance to hydroplaning, a trait that also shows up on some of the tests I have seen. The Hakka R is also weak in this area.


Thanks, but the above info confuses the choice between the two even more, for me.
frown.gif


I STILL wonder if the Nokian is worth the extra ~$40.00/tire shipped difference to the Michelin????!!

It also begs the question, WHICH studless winter tire beats them BOTH at pure snow traction???
21.gif
 
rand- how do you like these tires so far (if you've driven)? i was thinking about picking some up for my galant (also awd). what part of neo are you in? i ask since snowfall is widely spread whether you're in the snowbelt or not. i'm on the east side of cleveland in south euclid.
 
I'll find out how my Nokian Hakka R's are next week when they get mounted up. It looks like the season is finally approaching where they're needed.
 
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
...............It also begs the question, WHICH studless winter tire beats them BOTH at pure snow traction???
21.gif



Probably the Continental EWC (and General AA), but its weakness is wet traction and hydroplaning. If you look over the last several years of NAF tests for Xi2 vs HakkaR vs EWC, I think that is the pattern you will see.

The General Altimax Arctic seems to get much praise from users for its snow traction. It does not get tested in the demanding European tests, but CR gives it high marks for snow acceleration, and very good marks for wet braking and hydroplaning resistance. CR says it weakness is dry braking and overall handling. Tire Rack also tested this tire, but I don't remember the results.
 
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Test World is not the only place that does objective vehicle and tire testing. In fact, there are several places in the US!

The problem is that it is difficult to get repeatable results without extraordinary care in test protocol. You need a control tire and the control tire has to be tested repeatedly throughout the test sequence to identify testing drift. Then the test surface has to be constantly groomed.



Yes here is one the place(Baudette, Minnesota) where Acura did their SH-AWD winter testing. Pretty to cool to see how well the next generation of AWD works even with all-seasons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YidkaqlW9ns
 
My buddy has always run Michelin Arctic Alpine and X-Ice for many years during the winter months. ATMOF, they're the only tire that his wife likes on any of their vehicles since I have known them. She hates just regular A/S tires even in the nice weather/summer. IDKY!
 
I bought a set of Michelin Arctic Alpin winter tires when they first came out, could it have been 10 or 11 years ago? WORST WINTER TIRE EVER. They were horrible in deep snow and slush, slid all over the place on semi-hard packed snow, scared me so much that I stopped at a Walgreens to pick up some Depends on my way to the tire store. They lasted 2 months and 3 or 4 snowfalls before I pulled them.

I just mounted a set of X-Ice2's on my wife's car because I couldn't get a set of Altimax Arctics until mid-December. I see that the tread pattern is a little more open than the Arctic Alpin, but looks alone don't give me a lot of confidence. It's my wife's car and she's basically clueless about these things, but I'll be sure to drive her car every once in a while to form my own opinion. I do know that these X-Ice2's are SMOOTH, I call it Michelin Smooth. They have to perform in snow and slush better than the original Arctic Alpin as nothing could perform worse.
 
Originally Posted By: lyle
I bought a set of Michelin Arctic Alpin winter tires when they first came out, could it have been 10 or 11 years ago? WORST WINTER TIRE EVER. They were horrible in deep snow and slush, slid all over the place on semi-hard packed snow, scared me so much that I stopped at a Walgreens to pick up some Depends on my way to the tire store. They lasted 2 months and 3 or 4 snowfalls before I pulled them.

I just mounted a set of X-Ice2's on my wife's car because I couldn't get a set of Altimax Arctics until mid-December. I see that the tread pattern is a little more open than the Arctic Alpin, but looks alone don't give me a lot of confidence. It's my wife's car and she's basically clueless about these things, but I'll be sure to drive her car every once in a while to form my own opinion. I do know that these X-Ice2's are SMOOTH, I call it Michelin Smooth. They have to perform in snow and slush better than the original Arctic Alpin as nothing could perform worse.


Were those (The Arctic Alpins) the now defunct VERY closed, narrow-grooved, but sipey tread pattern??
When they first came out I even said to myself, "I don't see HOW those are going to work/shed snow at ALL!".
wink.gif
 
I remember those. My buddy had a set that was included with a used car he bought. The only tire I've ever seen marketed as a winter tire that didn't even have the RMA snowflake symbol.
 
Originally Posted By: SubLGT


Test World does objective, quantitative testing on ice and snow, and subjective, qualitative assessments also. I don't have the link anymore, but I did see a test commissioned by Goodyear for their Ultra Grip Ice+ tire, and it contained objective, quantitative data (braking distances, acceleration times, lap times etc), and subjective assessments about tire behavior.




do they express the data with error bars?
 
No error bars, but it does say that they did 16 (!) separate runs to get the results.

I'd sooner guess that the money that Goodyear paid for this testing came out of the Marketing budget than the Engineering budget.
 
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