It looks like Frank and I are on the same page here with the "what ifs"!
Public school zero tolerance policies are ASININE
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Originally Posted By: oldmaninsc
It looks like Frank and I are on the same page here with the "what ifs"!
It looks like Frank and I are on the same page here with the "what ifs"!
Let's go back to the facts, as reported, not supposed by all the posters:
Two Monument middle school students are facing expulsion after one loaned the other her asthma inhaler because she thought the girl was having an attack.
Breana Crites says she was short of breath during a physical education class last week and thought the inhaler would help. Both girls attended Lewis Palmer Middle School.
Alyssa McKinney says she didn't know that Crites did not have a prescription for the medication.
"I was really out of breath, and I started panicking which made it even worse. Alyssa asked me if I was all right and I thought I had an asthma attack so that's what I told her, so she offered me her inhaler and I took it," Crites told KOAA-TV.
The nurse found out and both 8th graders were suspended for 10 days, the station reported. The two also are facing expulsion.
In a statement, the school district said officials have strict rules regarding prescription medication that are designed to ensure student safety.
"Our policy allows for flexibility based on the specific facts of individual incidents, and we will use appropriate discretion in all situations to determine the best response," spokeswoman Robin Adair said in a statement.
She declined to comment on the students sharing an inhaler, citing student confidentiality laws.
To clarify:
Teenager B is short of breath during gym.
Teenager A offers a prescription drug based on her "thought" of what was affecting the other.
Teenager A does not determine if Teenager B has a prescription for that drug.
Teenager B does not have a prescription for the drug.
Both are facing expulsion (it has not been decided).
Teenager B's condition wasn't diagnosed by anyone with training (like the gym teacher, or the school nurse)...it was Teenager A who "thought" she might be having an asthma attack...maybe it was, maybe it wasn't.
Teenager B's condition wasn't serious enough to call 911 (via the gym teacher if a cell phone was not available). This was not a life-or-death situation.
Since Teenager B didn't have a prescription, no one on the scene, and certainly no one on this forum, had done the necessary medical background work to determine adverse reactions or drug interferences.
So how do you know that this prescription was appropriate for her condition, or even safe for her to take?
YOU don't. Only a doctor (or a trained medical professional) does.
Common sense (as well as Federal and State Law) says that you don't administer prescription/controlled drugs unless you're trained to do so.
The fact that nothing adverse happend to teenager B on using the inhaler does not change the fundamental risk of administering prescription drugs without the training.
Finally, the administration is reviewing the circumstances to make a determination. So the entire thread is ASININE - filled with assumptions that weren't in the story - this isn't zero tolerance as the OP and others have put it - the situation is UNDER REVIEW. They're suspended...and a decision on expulsion is pending.
Two Monument middle school students are facing expulsion after one loaned the other her asthma inhaler because she thought the girl was having an attack.
Breana Crites says she was short of breath during a physical education class last week and thought the inhaler would help. Both girls attended Lewis Palmer Middle School.
Alyssa McKinney says she didn't know that Crites did not have a prescription for the medication.
"I was really out of breath, and I started panicking which made it even worse. Alyssa asked me if I was all right and I thought I had an asthma attack so that's what I told her, so she offered me her inhaler and I took it," Crites told KOAA-TV.
The nurse found out and both 8th graders were suspended for 10 days, the station reported. The two also are facing expulsion.
In a statement, the school district said officials have strict rules regarding prescription medication that are designed to ensure student safety.
"Our policy allows for flexibility based on the specific facts of individual incidents, and we will use appropriate discretion in all situations to determine the best response," spokeswoman Robin Adair said in a statement.
She declined to comment on the students sharing an inhaler, citing student confidentiality laws.
To clarify:
Teenager B is short of breath during gym.
Teenager A offers a prescription drug based on her "thought" of what was affecting the other.
Teenager A does not determine if Teenager B has a prescription for that drug.
Teenager B does not have a prescription for the drug.
Both are facing expulsion (it has not been decided).
Teenager B's condition wasn't diagnosed by anyone with training (like the gym teacher, or the school nurse)...it was Teenager A who "thought" she might be having an asthma attack...maybe it was, maybe it wasn't.
Teenager B's condition wasn't serious enough to call 911 (via the gym teacher if a cell phone was not available). This was not a life-or-death situation.
Since Teenager B didn't have a prescription, no one on the scene, and certainly no one on this forum, had done the necessary medical background work to determine adverse reactions or drug interferences.
So how do you know that this prescription was appropriate for her condition, or even safe for her to take?
YOU don't. Only a doctor (or a trained medical professional) does.
Common sense (as well as Federal and State Law) says that you don't administer prescription/controlled drugs unless you're trained to do so.
The fact that nothing adverse happend to teenager B on using the inhaler does not change the fundamental risk of administering prescription drugs without the training.
Finally, the administration is reviewing the circumstances to make a determination. So the entire thread is ASININE - filled with assumptions that weren't in the story - this isn't zero tolerance as the OP and others have put it - the situation is UNDER REVIEW. They're suspended...and a decision on expulsion is pending.
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Originally Posted By: Astro14
Teenager B's condition wasn't serious enough to call 911 (via the gym teacher if a cell phone was not available). This was not a life-or-death situation.
YOU don't. Only a doctor (or a trained medical professional) does.
So the entire thread is ASININE - filled with assumptions
You made assumptions too: You indicated only a trained professional was qualified to diagnose illness or administer drugs. And the Gym teacher is qualified to Diagnose "short of breath" ?(calling 911 not necessary)
And if you carried an "Anal Kit" and your friend (stung by a bee) was starting having breathing problems. "You" of course (not being a trained professional and the victim not having the prescription) would not administer the anti-toxin....I understand.
Teenager B's condition wasn't serious enough to call 911 (via the gym teacher if a cell phone was not available). This was not a life-or-death situation.
YOU don't. Only a doctor (or a trained medical professional) does.
So the entire thread is ASININE - filled with assumptions
You made assumptions too: You indicated only a trained professional was qualified to diagnose illness or administer drugs. And the Gym teacher is qualified to Diagnose "short of breath" ?(calling 911 not necessary)
And if you carried an "Anal Kit" and your friend (stung by a bee) was starting having breathing problems. "You" of course (not being a trained professional and the victim not having the prescription) would not administer the anti-toxin....I understand.
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Originally Posted By: sciphi
Perfect waste of a teachable moment. A better thing to do would have publicly praise the girl for her quick action, then take her into the principal's office and explain how what she did was well-intentioned and could have resulted in her friend's death if her friend was not suffering from an asthma attack. Then instruct a more socially-appropriate response. Most kids are smarter than most adults believe. They'll learn no matter what. Here they learned that helping a friend gets you expelled. Expulsion teaches the wrong lesson here, IMO.
You sound like a teacher - and I mean that as a compliment.
Public schools do not exist to teach, though. Therein lies the crux of the problem. Public schooling is a big system that is a solution to a nonexistent problem.
Perfect waste of a teachable moment. A better thing to do would have publicly praise the girl for her quick action, then take her into the principal's office and explain how what she did was well-intentioned and could have resulted in her friend's death if her friend was not suffering from an asthma attack. Then instruct a more socially-appropriate response. Most kids are smarter than most adults believe. They'll learn no matter what. Here they learned that helping a friend gets you expelled. Expulsion teaches the wrong lesson here, IMO.
You sound like a teacher - and I mean that as a compliment.
Public schools do not exist to teach, though. Therein lies the crux of the problem. Public schooling is a big system that is a solution to a nonexistent problem.
To your specfic point: The gym teachers are required to have first aid training...and they're under enough legal pressure via school policy to call 911 at the first sign of trouble.
That didn't happen...in fact, it doesn't appear that the two teenagers even told anyone else until after the fact...ergo it wasn't life-threatening.
The second girl did not have a prescription for the inhaler, so she did not have a history of asthma.
It's clear that there was no "life-saving dose" of inhaler here...in fact, the only thing we can determine, without shade of interpretation, is that one teen gave another a prescription drug.
But if I am wrong about the circumstances, and I based my understanding on the news report, that's why the school is investigating.
Once the investigation is complete, then a decision will be made on expulsion...so, there is no "Zero-tolerance" here...the school is looking at the details of the case and will render a decision once they are considered....
The whole premise of this thread remains false.
That didn't happen...in fact, it doesn't appear that the two teenagers even told anyone else until after the fact...ergo it wasn't life-threatening.
The second girl did not have a prescription for the inhaler, so she did not have a history of asthma.
It's clear that there was no "life-saving dose" of inhaler here...in fact, the only thing we can determine, without shade of interpretation, is that one teen gave another a prescription drug.
But if I am wrong about the circumstances, and I based my understanding on the news report, that's why the school is investigating.
Once the investigation is complete, then a decision will be made on expulsion...so, there is no "Zero-tolerance" here...the school is looking at the details of the case and will render a decision once they are considered....
The whole premise of this thread remains false.
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Let's go back to the facts, as reported, not supposed by all the posters:
Two Monument middle school students are facing expulsion after one loaned the other her asthma inhaler because she thought the girl was having an attack.
Breana Crites says she was short of breath during a physical education class last week and thought the inhaler would help. Both girls attended Lewis Palmer Middle School.
Alyssa McKinney says she didn't know that Crites did not have a prescription for the medication.
"I was really out of breath, and I started panicking which made it even worse. Alyssa asked me if I was all right and I thought I had an asthma attack so that's what I told her, so she offered me her inhaler and I took it," Crites told KOAA-TV.
The nurse found out and both 8th graders were suspended for 10 days, the station reported. The two also are facing expulsion.
In a statement, the school district said officials have strict rules regarding prescription medication that are designed to ensure student safety.
"Our policy allows for flexibility based on the specific facts of individual incidents, and we will use appropriate discretion in all situations to determine the best response," spokeswoman Robin Adair said in a statement.
She declined to comment on the students sharing an inhaler, citing student confidentiality laws.
To clarify:
Teenager B is short of breath during gym.
Teenager A offers a prescription drug based on her "thought" of what was affecting the other.
Teenager A does not determine if Teenager B has a prescription for that drug.
Teenager B does not have a prescription for the drug.
Both are facing expulsion (it has not been decided).
Teenager B's condition wasn't diagnosed by anyone with training (like the gym teacher, or the school nurse)...it was Teenager A who "thought" she might be having an asthma attack...maybe it was, maybe it wasn't.
Teenager B's condition wasn't serious enough to call 911 (via the gym teacher if a cell phone was not available). This was not a life-or-death situation.
Since Teenager B didn't have a prescription, no one on the scene, and certainly no one on this forum, had done the necessary medical background work to determine adverse reactions or drug interferences.
So how do you know that this prescription was appropriate for her condition, or even safe for her to take?
YOU don't. Only a doctor (or a trained medical professional) does.
Common sense (as well as Federal and State Law) says that you don't administer prescription/controlled drugs unless you're trained to do so.
The fact that nothing adverse happend to teenager B on using the inhaler does not change the fundamental risk of administering prescription drugs without the training.
Finally, the administration is reviewing the circumstances to make a determination. So the entire thread is ASININE - filled with assumptions that weren't in the story - this isn't zero tolerance as the OP and others have put it - the situation is UNDER REVIEW. They're suspended...and a decision on expulsion is pending.
Astro: You and several others in this thread are the voice of reason. Thanks for that.
Here is something that I know something about. I am a School Administrator. I have spent 19 years as an administrator and 27 years in the field.
I can speak generally how this would have been handled in my building.
As a building administrator, we are given guidelines from the board of education that obviously are based on state law. In our district, a student that administers a controlled substance without authorization and one who consumes a controlled substance without authorization would be subject to a 10 day out of school suspension (the max that a building level administrator can hand out in Ohio and most other states) and a RECOMMENDATION for expulsion. An expulsion takes place at the central office level by the superintendent and can be appealed to both the superintendent and the BOE, as well as the courts. This is one of the circumstances that it is an automatic call and building level administrators are required to follow this protocol. The primary reason is that the superintendent wants to set a tone that encourages that controlled substances are handled properly (through the Nurse and specific trained personnel) but he also wants to ensure that there is a consistency in responding to each situation, as well as considering the nuances of each individual situation. Would our district expel both girls under these circumstances? No. Those of us at our building have enough common sense that we would be working behind the scenes to make sure that did not happen. As a matter of fact, we probably would manipulate the date of the expulsion hearing earlier in the suspension (yes, some of you, hearings are actually held to determine fact. Principals do not merely verbally dismiss students and say they are expelled.) in order to look at rolling some if not most of the suspension days off.
The bottom line is this: schools cannot simply allow students to dispense controlled substances. Fortunately, in this case there was a good outcome.
In my district these girls probably would have had a sanction less than expulsion because some of us are "dinosaurs" that attempt to look at each situation with appropriate common sense.
However, students dispensing medication can create bad situations. I had to deal with two last year. In one, 3 girls were transported by squad to the hospital and one almost died. We were told by both squad people and the girls parents that our and the Nurses quick action saved her life. The other situation was not as fortunate. we had a 15 year old student die as the result of a pill that was dispensed at school. The parents thought he was acting irregular, he admitted to ingesting a pill, took him to the ER, was treated and released. They found him dead in bed on a Saturday morning. If you want to talk about a tragedy, this was it. He was a great kid that made one single mistake. The saddest day of my career was attending his funeral.
Astro, I agree with you that this thread was asinine. The same people who are blasting the school for having standards for student safety are the same ones who would be blasting the school if the student would have had an allergic reaction from the Albuterol. Rant over, but it is at least a rant from someone who has ACTUALLY dealt with these kinds of situations before.
Let's go back to the facts, as reported, not supposed by all the posters:
Two Monument middle school students are facing expulsion after one loaned the other her asthma inhaler because she thought the girl was having an attack.
Breana Crites says she was short of breath during a physical education class last week and thought the inhaler would help. Both girls attended Lewis Palmer Middle School.
Alyssa McKinney says she didn't know that Crites did not have a prescription for the medication.
"I was really out of breath, and I started panicking which made it even worse. Alyssa asked me if I was all right and I thought I had an asthma attack so that's what I told her, so she offered me her inhaler and I took it," Crites told KOAA-TV.
The nurse found out and both 8th graders were suspended for 10 days, the station reported. The two also are facing expulsion.
In a statement, the school district said officials have strict rules regarding prescription medication that are designed to ensure student safety.
"Our policy allows for flexibility based on the specific facts of individual incidents, and we will use appropriate discretion in all situations to determine the best response," spokeswoman Robin Adair said in a statement.
She declined to comment on the students sharing an inhaler, citing student confidentiality laws.
To clarify:
Teenager B is short of breath during gym.
Teenager A offers a prescription drug based on her "thought" of what was affecting the other.
Teenager A does not determine if Teenager B has a prescription for that drug.
Teenager B does not have a prescription for the drug.
Both are facing expulsion (it has not been decided).
Teenager B's condition wasn't diagnosed by anyone with training (like the gym teacher, or the school nurse)...it was Teenager A who "thought" she might be having an asthma attack...maybe it was, maybe it wasn't.
Teenager B's condition wasn't serious enough to call 911 (via the gym teacher if a cell phone was not available). This was not a life-or-death situation.
Since Teenager B didn't have a prescription, no one on the scene, and certainly no one on this forum, had done the necessary medical background work to determine adverse reactions or drug interferences.
So how do you know that this prescription was appropriate for her condition, or even safe for her to take?
YOU don't. Only a doctor (or a trained medical professional) does.
Common sense (as well as Federal and State Law) says that you don't administer prescription/controlled drugs unless you're trained to do so.
The fact that nothing adverse happend to teenager B on using the inhaler does not change the fundamental risk of administering prescription drugs without the training.
Finally, the administration is reviewing the circumstances to make a determination. So the entire thread is ASININE - filled with assumptions that weren't in the story - this isn't zero tolerance as the OP and others have put it - the situation is UNDER REVIEW. They're suspended...and a decision on expulsion is pending.
Astro: You and several others in this thread are the voice of reason. Thanks for that.
Here is something that I know something about. I am a School Administrator. I have spent 19 years as an administrator and 27 years in the field.
I can speak generally how this would have been handled in my building.
As a building administrator, we are given guidelines from the board of education that obviously are based on state law. In our district, a student that administers a controlled substance without authorization and one who consumes a controlled substance without authorization would be subject to a 10 day out of school suspension (the max that a building level administrator can hand out in Ohio and most other states) and a RECOMMENDATION for expulsion. An expulsion takes place at the central office level by the superintendent and can be appealed to both the superintendent and the BOE, as well as the courts. This is one of the circumstances that it is an automatic call and building level administrators are required to follow this protocol. The primary reason is that the superintendent wants to set a tone that encourages that controlled substances are handled properly (through the Nurse and specific trained personnel) but he also wants to ensure that there is a consistency in responding to each situation, as well as considering the nuances of each individual situation. Would our district expel both girls under these circumstances? No. Those of us at our building have enough common sense that we would be working behind the scenes to make sure that did not happen. As a matter of fact, we probably would manipulate the date of the expulsion hearing earlier in the suspension (yes, some of you, hearings are actually held to determine fact. Principals do not merely verbally dismiss students and say they are expelled.) in order to look at rolling some if not most of the suspension days off.
The bottom line is this: schools cannot simply allow students to dispense controlled substances. Fortunately, in this case there was a good outcome.
In my district these girls probably would have had a sanction less than expulsion because some of us are "dinosaurs" that attempt to look at each situation with appropriate common sense.
However, students dispensing medication can create bad situations. I had to deal with two last year. In one, 3 girls were transported by squad to the hospital and one almost died. We were told by both squad people and the girls parents that our and the Nurses quick action saved her life. The other situation was not as fortunate. we had a 15 year old student die as the result of a pill that was dispensed at school. The parents thought he was acting irregular, he admitted to ingesting a pill, took him to the ER, was treated and released. They found him dead in bed on a Saturday morning. If you want to talk about a tragedy, this was it. He was a great kid that made one single mistake. The saddest day of my career was attending his funeral.
Astro, I agree with you that this thread was asinine. The same people who are blasting the school for having standards for student safety are the same ones who would be blasting the school if the student would have had an allergic reaction from the Albuterol. Rant over, but it is at least a rant from someone who has ACTUALLY dealt with these kinds of situations before.
TDBO: A couple of paragraph breaks and less wordy, shorter sentences would have made this much easier to read.
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Originally Posted By: Astro14
Let's go back to the facts, as reported, not supposed by all the posters:
Yeah I see lots of assumptions on your part as well. The whole point is - that the punishment does NOT fit the "crime". Do both girls deserve to be spoken to and parents called? Absolutely. Suspended and potentially expelled from school? No way! It's one thing if students are selling/trading drugs for recreational use. But this is most definitely not the case here.
What I find interesting that Astro seems to have overlooked - is that teenager "B" TOLD teenager "A" " . . . I thought I had an asthma attack . . . " Teenager "A" didn't diagnose it on her own!
Let's go back to the facts, as reported, not supposed by all the posters:
Yeah I see lots of assumptions on your part as well. The whole point is - that the punishment does NOT fit the "crime". Do both girls deserve to be spoken to and parents called? Absolutely. Suspended and potentially expelled from school? No way! It's one thing if students are selling/trading drugs for recreational use. But this is most definitely not the case here.
What I find interesting that Astro seems to have overlooked - is that teenager "B" TOLD teenager "A" " . . . I thought I had an asthma attack . . . " Teenager "A" didn't diagnose it on her own!
We are still assuming that it was Albuterol. For all we know, the first student could have hoarded a huge cache of over the counter Primatene Mist.
My friend's daughter was disciplined for having 2 (TWO) ibuprofen tablets in her purse. She is 15, an honor student, a cheerleader, and has no prior disciplinary issues.
Two over the counter pain relievers and all the sudden she is treated like a drug addicted, suicidal, troubled teen.
C'mon....this is acceptable? Sheesh.
My friend's daughter was disciplined for having 2 (TWO) ibuprofen tablets in her purse. She is 15, an honor student, a cheerleader, and has no prior disciplinary issues.
Two over the counter pain relievers and all the sudden she is treated like a drug addicted, suicidal, troubled teen.
C'mon....this is acceptable? Sheesh.
Originally Posted By: Al
TDBO: A couple of paragraph breaks and less wordy, shorter sentences would have made this much easier to read.
Exactly! No one ever said administrators were writing experts! LOL!
But just because that's the way it is in his school doesn't make it right.
I find it hilarious and sad that he makes this statement: "Astro: You and several others in this thread are the voice of reason." Why - because he agrees with you?
And no Mr. Administrator, if this incident had a tragic outcome I would NOT be blaming the school or school officials - I would be blaming the parents and/or the students. I taught my kids to NEVER take medicine from someone else OR to offer it to someone else, even an aspirin.
TDBO: A couple of paragraph breaks and less wordy, shorter sentences would have made this much easier to read.
Exactly! No one ever said administrators were writing experts! LOL!
But just because that's the way it is in his school doesn't make it right.
I find it hilarious and sad that he makes this statement: "Astro: You and several others in this thread are the voice of reason." Why - because he agrees with you?
And no Mr. Administrator, if this incident had a tragic outcome I would NOT be blaming the school or school officials - I would be blaming the parents and/or the students. I taught my kids to NEVER take medicine from someone else OR to offer it to someone else, even an aspirin.
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Originally Posted By: oldmaninsc
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Let's go back to the facts, as reported, not supposed by all the posters:
Yeah I see lots of assumptions on your part as well. The whole point is - that the punishment does NOT fit the "crime". Do both girls deserve to be spoken to and parents called? Absolutely. Suspended and potentially expelled from school? No way! It's one thing if students are selling/trading drugs for recreational use. But this is most definitely not the case here.
What I find interesting that Astro seems to have overlooked - is that teenager "B" TOLD teenager "A" " . . . I thought I had an asthma attack . . . " Teenager "A" didn't diagnose it on her own!
She diagnosed it by "prescribing" the inhaler...and Teenager B has no history of asthma, so how would she know definitively what was happening? (for the record, exercise-induced asthma is not uncommon and is not life-threatening).
Regardless of nit-picking on my analysis, you can't escape the fact that one teen gave another a prescription drug. That act is illegal under State and Federal law because it is dangerous to the recipient. The inhaler is not "safe"...it's not an OTC med, so in the "punishment fit the crime" estimation, it's more like Percoset than ibuprofen.
Further, you can't deny that the school is applying its policy as written - considering the facts before rendering a judgement...so there's no "Zero Tolerance" in this story.
The school is rationally considering the facts before judging. I am astonished how many BITOGers are unable to do the same, and have judged the school without even considering the facts present in the story.
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Let's go back to the facts, as reported, not supposed by all the posters:
Yeah I see lots of assumptions on your part as well. The whole point is - that the punishment does NOT fit the "crime". Do both girls deserve to be spoken to and parents called? Absolutely. Suspended and potentially expelled from school? No way! It's one thing if students are selling/trading drugs for recreational use. But this is most definitely not the case here.
What I find interesting that Astro seems to have overlooked - is that teenager "B" TOLD teenager "A" " . . . I thought I had an asthma attack . . . " Teenager "A" didn't diagnose it on her own!
She diagnosed it by "prescribing" the inhaler...and Teenager B has no history of asthma, so how would she know definitively what was happening? (for the record, exercise-induced asthma is not uncommon and is not life-threatening).
Regardless of nit-picking on my analysis, you can't escape the fact that one teen gave another a prescription drug. That act is illegal under State and Federal law because it is dangerous to the recipient. The inhaler is not "safe"...it's not an OTC med, so in the "punishment fit the crime" estimation, it's more like Percoset than ibuprofen.
Further, you can't deny that the school is applying its policy as written - considering the facts before rendering a judgement...so there's no "Zero Tolerance" in this story.
The school is rationally considering the facts before judging. I am astonished how many BITOGers are unable to do the same, and have judged the school without even considering the facts present in the story.
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Originally Posted By: Al
TDBO: A couple of paragraph breaks and less wordy, shorter sentences would have made this much easier to read.
Thanks for contributing to the conversation in such a meaningful way. Sorry for upsetting the grammar police.
TDBO: A couple of paragraph breaks and less wordy, shorter sentences would have made this much easier to read.
Thanks for contributing to the conversation in such a meaningful way. Sorry for upsetting the grammar police.
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
We are still assuming that it was Albuterol. For all we know, the first student could have hoarded a huge cache of over the counter Primatene Mist.
My friend's daughter was disciplined for having 2 (TWO) ibuprofen tablets in her purse. She is 15, an honor student, a cheerleader, and has no prior disciplinary issues.
Two over the counter pain relievers and all the sudden she is treated like a drug addicted, suicidal, troubled teen.
C'mon....this is acceptable? Sheesh.
I said it was likely albuterol. The story states that it was prescription.
Prescription.
So, no, it's not like ibuprofen...or Primatene...
But, hey, don't let those pesky facts, or the law, get in the way of your argument...
We are still assuming that it was Albuterol. For all we know, the first student could have hoarded a huge cache of over the counter Primatene Mist.
My friend's daughter was disciplined for having 2 (TWO) ibuprofen tablets in her purse. She is 15, an honor student, a cheerleader, and has no prior disciplinary issues.
Two over the counter pain relievers and all the sudden she is treated like a drug addicted, suicidal, troubled teen.
C'mon....this is acceptable? Sheesh.
I said it was likely albuterol. The story states that it was prescription.
Prescription.
So, no, it's not like ibuprofen...or Primatene...
But, hey, don't let those pesky facts, or the law, get in the way of your argument...
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Common sense (as well as Federal and State Law) says that you don't administer prescription/controlled drugs unless you're trained to do so.
And there in lies the fundamental flaw with your argument.
Here is the most poignant "pesky fact" you're ignoring.
If we were dealing with 2 fully developed, legal ADULTS, your argument would be perfectly acceptable. However, this case involves 2 legally underage CHILDREN. 13 years old. Do you expect 2 underage 13 year old girls to know the laws of prescription use?
Common sense (as well as Federal and State Law) says that you don't administer prescription/controlled drugs unless you're trained to do so.
And there in lies the fundamental flaw with your argument.
Here is the most poignant "pesky fact" you're ignoring.
If we were dealing with 2 fully developed, legal ADULTS, your argument would be perfectly acceptable. However, this case involves 2 legally underage CHILDREN. 13 years old. Do you expect 2 underage 13 year old girls to know the laws of prescription use?
Kestas
Staff member
I find it interesting that we had all morning to mull over the decision this 13 year old made. She had, at most, 30 seconds to make this decision in a panic situation. I'd cut her some slack, regardless of whether it was right or wrong in the end.
Originally Posted By: Kestas
I find it interesting that we had all morning to mull over the decision this 13 year old made. She had, at most, 30 seconds to make this decision in a panic situation. I'd cut her some slack, regardless of whether it was right or wrong in the end.
I agree! Give the kid credit for making the split second, commonsense decision that some in this thread are simply not capable of comprehending, no matter how much they type.
I find it interesting that we had all morning to mull over the decision this 13 year old made. She had, at most, 30 seconds to make this decision in a panic situation. I'd cut her some slack, regardless of whether it was right or wrong in the end.
I agree! Give the kid credit for making the split second, commonsense decision that some in this thread are simply not capable of comprehending, no matter how much they type.
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Common sense (as well as Federal and State Law) says that you don't administer prescription/controlled drugs unless you're trained to do so.
And there in lies the fundamental flaw with your argument.
Here is the most poignant "pesky fact" you're ignoring.
If we were dealing with 2 fully developed, legal ADULTS, your argument would be perfectly acceptable. However, this case involves 2 legally underage CHILDREN. 13 years old. Do you expect 2 underage 13 year old girls to know the laws of prescription use?
It's because they are children (and I'll accept your age estimation, the story only said 8th graders...) that they're not being prosecuted.
It's because there is a policy that their case is being considered.
I'll say that again, because it seems lost on you: the school is reviewing the case.
There's no "zero-tolerance" blind application of policy. The school is considering the case....The thread title is specious.
Like Oldmaninsc, my kids know better than to share prescription drugs. There is clearly some parental lapse here in explaining what a prescription drug is to the children involved.
But,somehow, from the title of the post, and the arguments subsequent, people have a problem with the school deciding what to do with these kids?
Why?
You think you're in a better position to judge than the school?
I have only tried to point out why the policy exists, what facts exist and cut through all the hyperbole surrounding this. The core of the issue was the prescription drug.
I support the school in their decision, and in their right to make that decision.
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Common sense (as well as Federal and State Law) says that you don't administer prescription/controlled drugs unless you're trained to do so.
And there in lies the fundamental flaw with your argument.
Here is the most poignant "pesky fact" you're ignoring.
If we were dealing with 2 fully developed, legal ADULTS, your argument would be perfectly acceptable. However, this case involves 2 legally underage CHILDREN. 13 years old. Do you expect 2 underage 13 year old girls to know the laws of prescription use?
It's because they are children (and I'll accept your age estimation, the story only said 8th graders...) that they're not being prosecuted.
It's because there is a policy that their case is being considered.
I'll say that again, because it seems lost on you: the school is reviewing the case.
There's no "zero-tolerance" blind application of policy. The school is considering the case....The thread title is specious.
Like Oldmaninsc, my kids know better than to share prescription drugs. There is clearly some parental lapse here in explaining what a prescription drug is to the children involved.
But,somehow, from the title of the post, and the arguments subsequent, people have a problem with the school deciding what to do with these kids?
Why?
You think you're in a better position to judge than the school?
I have only tried to point out why the policy exists, what facts exist and cut through all the hyperbole surrounding this. The core of the issue was the prescription drug.
I support the school in their decision, and in their right to make that decision.
Originally Posted By: 3311
Originally Posted By: Kestas
I find it interesting that we had all morning to mull over the decision this 13 year old made. She had, at most, 30 seconds to make this decision in a panic situation. I'd cut her some slack, regardless of whether it was right or wrong in the end.
I agree! Give the kid credit for making the split second, commonsense decision that some in this thread are simply not capable of comprehending, no matter how much they type.
I've spent my entire adult life making split-second, life-or-death decisions.
This wasn't one of those...
I am willing to cut her some slack, but I think the case needs to be reviewed, by those at the school, who have access to all the details.
All we know is what was in the article: a kid didn't feel well in gym class...and it sure didn't say it was life or death - if it had, I would be among the first to call her a quick-thinking hero.
Originally Posted By: Kestas
I find it interesting that we had all morning to mull over the decision this 13 year old made. She had, at most, 30 seconds to make this decision in a panic situation. I'd cut her some slack, regardless of whether it was right or wrong in the end.
I agree! Give the kid credit for making the split second, commonsense decision that some in this thread are simply not capable of comprehending, no matter how much they type.
I've spent my entire adult life making split-second, life-or-death decisions.
This wasn't one of those...
I am willing to cut her some slack, but I think the case needs to be reviewed, by those at the school, who have access to all the details.
All we know is what was in the article: a kid didn't feel well in gym class...and it sure didn't say it was life or death - if it had, I would be among the first to call her a quick-thinking hero.
Originally Posted By: oldmaninsc
Originally Posted By: Al
TDBO: A couple of paragraph breaks and less wordy, shorter sentences would have made this much easier to read.
Exactly! No one ever said administrators were writing experts! LOL!
But just because that's the way it is in his school doesn't make it right.
I find it hilarious and sad that he makes this statement: "Astro: You and several others in this thread are the voice of reason." Why - because he agrees with you?
And no Mr. Administrator, if this incident had a tragic outcome I would NOT be blaming the school or school officials - I would be blaming the parents and/or the students. I taught my kids to NEVER take medicine from someone else OR to offer it to someone else, even an aspirin.
I guess when one has an agenda, they have to see it through.
I simply tried to offer another perspective. At no time did I ever say it was right, I said simply, this is how we would have handled it.
I'm glad that you taught your kids not to take or hand out medication from strangers. Many parents overlook that detail.
I hope the sentence structure used in this answer is not to complex for you or Al.
Originally Posted By: Al
TDBO: A couple of paragraph breaks and less wordy, shorter sentences would have made this much easier to read.
Exactly! No one ever said administrators were writing experts! LOL!
But just because that's the way it is in his school doesn't make it right.
I find it hilarious and sad that he makes this statement: "Astro: You and several others in this thread are the voice of reason." Why - because he agrees with you?
And no Mr. Administrator, if this incident had a tragic outcome I would NOT be blaming the school or school officials - I would be blaming the parents and/or the students. I taught my kids to NEVER take medicine from someone else OR to offer it to someone else, even an aspirin.
I guess when one has an agenda, they have to see it through.
I simply tried to offer another perspective. At no time did I ever say it was right, I said simply, this is how we would have handled it.
I'm glad that you taught your kids not to take or hand out medication from strangers. Many parents overlook that detail.
I hope the sentence structure used in this answer is not to complex for you or Al.
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