Pros and cons of Electronic Parking Brakes?

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Originally Posted by Yah-Tah-Hey
PimTac said:
ABS was also hard for many to except. " I don't want a car that I can't lock up the brakes." I actual heard that. Same with tubeless tires,


ABS always gets me when I hear complaints about it.

I know that locking the brakes can be beneficial for stopping distance on certain types of surfaces, but at least on dry/wet/iced over asphalt or concrete, you get the the maximum braking effort by applying just short of the amount of braking force needed to lock the wheels. I also know that SOME insanely skilled drivers can modulate the brake pedal fast enough to hold it at that point, but even those drivers can't control all 4 wheels independently or look at real-time data on which wheels are turning and which aren't, much less adjust braking several times a second.

And, yes, I have two vehicles without ABS(although one isn't yet on the road). When push comes to shove, if I need to brake in a hurry, I'd rather just bury my foot in the pedal and know that I'm getting the shortest stopping distance I can get for surface I'm on(and tires on my car). I try to avoid situations where I'm that close to the edge, but at the same time I've had some eerily close calls in my MG(from people not seeing it and pulling out in front of me) where the sound of squealing tires from locking the brakes is NOT what I wanted to hear.
 
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46 years of driving/owning vehicles. Too many cars to remember and about half were manual transmission... First 25 years living in Chicago and the rest in Maryland. Snow, ice, flatlands, hills and mountains. Have no idea of how many hundreds of thousands of miles behind the wheel. Drove motorcycles for a good spell too; they don't have emergency brakes. Did my fair share of 1/4 dragstrip racing as a teenager. Occasionally did HDPE and similar track events from time-to-time (and still do, just went 2 weeks ago)...

And in all that time, I never used the parking brake for anything other than parking the car. "Hill Holder"... Are you kidding me? I passed my DL test with a manual and you were expressly forbidden to use it as a hill holder (back then anyhow). Test required a stop on a steep hill and you weren't allowed to roll back any perceptible amount.

So, the current 2018 Mazda3 has an electronic parking brake -and I love it so far. No awkward crank handle in the center console which makes it look nicer too. If it breaks well, I might change my mind how I feel about it when if/when I cross that bridge
grin.gif


Ray

PS: The Mazda3 was fun on a paved road course.
 
I used to like and roll back into cars that were too close to my rear on a hill with a stop light.

Had the Pickup back then.

That hill holder gizmo is a Subaru and now VW thing

But with no handbrake, its back to heel and toe on them hills.

and these new-fangled cars don't have room for my foot long feet down there.

47 years driving 70 cars over 3/4 million miles.
 
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I don't see an E-parking brake as being a problem provided the DIY'er can still do a rear brake job themselves. Unfortunately that's not the case with most of these systems.
 
Originally Posted by AC1DD
Originally Posted by Yah-Tah-Hey
A simple mechanical device that won't get better with electrification. New features we just can't do without is what keeps me in a 2004 vehicle.



Exactly. It can be applied and released whether the car electrics are on or off, you can actually modulate the amount of braking done via the handbrake lever if you have this, which both my vehicles do, and indeed this CAN be very effectively used in an emergency, the electronic e brake is USELESS during any kind of regular brake failures!

That could be the difference between life and death!


You realize ABS can modulate brakes much faster (by a wide margin) than you can...using the ebrake? Brake failures don't happen in any system that's maintained......and if someone doesn't have enough knowledge to maintain the system-they certainly don't have enough knowledge to pull off a "fast and furious" move with the ebrake.
 
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Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
I used to like and roll back into cars that were too close to my rear on a hill with a stop light.

Had the Pickup back then.

That hill holder gizmo is a Subaru and now VW thing

But with no handbrake, its back to heel and toe on them hills.

and these new-fangled cars don't have room for my foot long feet down there.

47 years driving 70 cars over 3/4 million miles.


Gotcha beat dude. I was in outside sales over a million miles in 20 years. About the same number of cars tho.
 
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Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite

as an advanced skillset driver, I don't want traction control, ABS or electric parking brakes.

Or at least I want the option to TOTALLY DISABLE these gizmos.

My lease VW cant even get the hill holder programming correct. It holds for 2 seconds after you release the clutch.

This wont do in certain situations.

Try to steer a car while sliding BACKWARDS down an icy hill and have the stupid hill holder apply E brake and throw you in a bank and ditch.
javascript: void(0)
Happened and invoked rage. Subaru now VW.

&^%$ Safety Nannies!!! Trying to kill me.


What training have you had? And how could you possibly modulate the brakes faster than the computer can in an ABS system. Do tell.......
 
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Originally Posted by RayCJ

And in all that time, I never used the parking brake for anything other than parking the car. "Hill Holder"... Are you kidding me? I passed my DL test with a manual and you were expressly forbidden to use it as a hill holder (back then anyhow). Test required a stop on a steep hill and you weren't allowed to roll back any perceptible amount.


I can't claim anywhere near that many years driving a manual, but I've never used the handbrake for a hill start either, and also with some practice(back when I learned to drive one) can reliably start on any size hill without roll-back. I've actually tried to use the handbrake, but find it more difficult than coordinating my clutch let off with my switch from the brake to the gas.

I guess norms are different in other places, though-a friend from London has told me that it's actually considered improper driving to stay stopped for any length of time with your foot on the foot brake, and that instead the handbrake should be used to hold the car once the car has come to a stop. They claim that brake lights "dazzle" the driver behind you. Personally, I don't buy it-if I'm stopped, I want my brake lights on bright(or at least as bright as the manufacturer made them) to let anyone coming up behind me unambiguously know I'm stopped.
 
I'm just curious if anyone's owner's manual calls it an "emergency brake". I have the electronic PDF version of all my cars and all of them call it a "Parking Brake". The word "Emergency" is not used in-combination with the word "brake" anywhere in the three manuals I have for my latest cars.

In days gone by (Probably late 1960's), there were single-reservoir master brakes. Matter of fact, I've seen a fair share of single-line brake systems. Those cars had an emergency brake for obvious purposes. I'd venture to guess that since the advent of 2-line systems, the term has changed from emergency brake to parking brake.

Oh: Forgot to mention in my earlier post that I use the parking break every time I park the car. The thought of leaving that much tension against some pawl and gear tooth makes my skin crawl.

Ray
 
Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite

as an advanced skillset driver, I don't want traction control, ABS or electric parking brakes.

Or at least I want the option to TOTALLY DISABLE these gizmos.

My lease VW cant even get the hill holder programming correct. It holds for 2 seconds after you release the clutch.

This wont do in certain situations.

Try to steer a car while sliding BACKWARDS down an icy hill and have the stupid hill holder apply E brake and throw you in a bank and ditch.
javascript: void(0)
Happened and invoked rage. Subaru now VW.

&^%$ Safety Nannies!!! Trying to kill me.


What training have you had? And how could you possibly modulate the brakes faster than the computer can in an ABS system. Do tell.......

Wrong question.
 
Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
I used to like and roll back into cars that were too close to my rear on a hill with a stop light.

Had the Pickup back then.

That hill holder gizmo is a Subaru and now VW thing

But with no handbrake, its back to heel and toe on them hills.

and these new-fangled cars don't have room for my foot long feet down there.

47 years driving 70 cars over 3/4 million miles.


Gotcha beat dude. I was in outside sales over a million miles in 20 years. About the same number of cars tho.

Well, I don't want to spend all my time on the road. Mine were mainly work commute drudgery. The less the better.
 
Much prefer the e-brake because it beats cringing ever time you watch a family member unecessarily rip on the manual brake lever. It drives me nuts TBH.
 
This thread proves to me people argue over anything.

I like the e brake on my car. I can set it and it auto releases when I start driving. Sometimes I forget on my other cars and it bothers me. Granted after 5 feet I realize but still. I have never used a parking brake for anything but parking so there is that. I have driven probably a million miles in my life and can't recall ever having to use it for any other reason
 
I think oil threads discussing "additive packages" are worse.....just sayin.....
 
Originally Posted by Eddie
In an emergency stop, can the e-brake effort be modulated or would it just jam on and lock the wheel? Ed


In electronic ones there's no modulation.
 
Originally Posted by Pew
Originally Posted by Eddie
In an emergency stop, can the e-brake effort be modulated or would it just jam on and lock the wheel? Ed


In electronic ones there's no modulation.


I tested the mazda at about 10mph, it locks up. I don't want to test it any faster!
 
Then many use "mini drums" in the rotor hat that likely would disintegrate if used as a real E-brake.

But the younger generation don't understand that cars had only ONE brake circuit on the master cylinder in the 60's and prior.

I think the dual- diagonals came in the late 60's?

BeerCan - If you dont live in a snowy area you likely wouldnt need the handbrake for steering assistance.

As teens we made sport of "impromptu street road rally racing" and learned advanced driving skills.

The handbrake came in play in this driving scenario.
 
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
Then many use "mini drums" in the rotor hat that likely would disintegrate if used as a real E-brake.

But the younger generation don't understand that cars had only ONE brake circuit on the master cylinder in the 60's and prior.

I think the dual- diagonals came in the late 60's?

BeerCan - If you dont live in a snowy area you likely wouldnt need the handbrake for steering assistance.

As teens we made sport of "impromptu street road rally racing" and learned advanced driving skills.

The handbrake came in play in this driving scenario.



I grew up and lived in snow plenty,why do you think I live in Florida?
smile.gif
 
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