Yeah, it is a rarity.
Pro Line#ppl-14612 CUT OPEN
- Thread starter 53' Stude
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car 51 maybe one filter was older stock.. If they go to the louvers on the 820-s i will switch to the ultra in a minute.
Originally Posted By: WellOiled
Sayjac is correct. The louvers on the subject filter are formed correctly and the filter performed well for 5000 miles. There is no reason to criticize correctly formed louvers.
Well said. Clearly you get the point WO as do the majority of astute posters here. It's those reading this sub forum and not as sophisticated that could get the wrong idea about louvered center tube design in general, and on topic this one specifically.
As for Motorcraft knowing something about the tube design, doubtful imo. Likely just in the process of the change over to a louvered design.
As for 'wavy' pleats, that alone has no effect on function, mostly aesthetics. As an example, even the very well regarded German/Austrian Mahle spin on posted here exhibited some wavy pleating.
Bottom line, this one functioned as it should over the 5k mile oci.
Sayjac is correct. The louvers on the subject filter are formed correctly and the filter performed well for 5000 miles. There is no reason to criticize correctly formed louvers.
Well said. Clearly you get the point WO as do the majority of astute posters here. It's those reading this sub forum and not as sophisticated that could get the wrong idea about louvered center tube design in general, and on topic this one specifically.
As for Motorcraft knowing something about the tube design, doubtful imo. Likely just in the process of the change over to a louvered design.
As for 'wavy' pleats, that alone has no effect on function, mostly aesthetics. As an example, even the very well regarded German/Austrian Mahle spin on posted here exhibited some wavy pleating.
Bottom line, this one functioned as it should over the 5k mile oci.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: jongies3
Looks like it did it's job just fine! I don't understand the whole louvers argument, I haven't seen any issues with them at all.
Did you see this thread?
Lack of Louvers [Link]
The argument is not if louvers are good or bad, but rather can they be formed correctly to ensure there is adequate flow area on the center tube. As seen in the link above, half or more of the louvers were not even punched all the way through the metal. If the flow area is restricted too much, then the delta-p across the filter could be high enough to open the bypass valve way too often, which is not really something you want happening.
I sincerely hope you're not that clueless, and that you're just being deliberately obtuse here. The filters that you are claiming are "not even punched all the way through" are merely facing the other direction. You're seeing the 'back side' of them.
It's ludicrous, to even suggest this.
Furthermore, regarding this whole louvers argument - If you seriously think that louvers would be capable of restricting oil flow, despite the fact that their overall surface area is :
1 - Larger than the inlet holes in the filter's baseplate
2 - Larger than the outlet hole in the filter's baseplate
..and that any ONE louver is in some way small enough to block flow despite the fact that the filter media has FAR smaller 'holes' in it, by definition, in order to be able to actually filter the oil..
then you are seriously deluded.
Originally Posted By: jongies3
Looks like it did it's job just fine! I don't understand the whole louvers argument, I haven't seen any issues with them at all.
Did you see this thread?
Lack of Louvers [Link]
The argument is not if louvers are good or bad, but rather can they be formed correctly to ensure there is adequate flow area on the center tube. As seen in the link above, half or more of the louvers were not even punched all the way through the metal. If the flow area is restricted too much, then the delta-p across the filter could be high enough to open the bypass valve way too often, which is not really something you want happening.
I sincerely hope you're not that clueless, and that you're just being deliberately obtuse here. The filters that you are claiming are "not even punched all the way through" are merely facing the other direction. You're seeing the 'back side' of them.
It's ludicrous, to even suggest this.
Furthermore, regarding this whole louvers argument - If you seriously think that louvers would be capable of restricting oil flow, despite the fact that their overall surface area is :
1 - Larger than the inlet holes in the filter's baseplate
2 - Larger than the outlet hole in the filter's baseplate
..and that any ONE louver is in some way small enough to block flow despite the fact that the filter media has FAR smaller 'holes' in it, by definition, in order to be able to actually filter the oil..
then you are seriously deluded.
^^^ You should read better before you post and make a fool out of yourself. I was referring to the louvers on the filter IN THE LINK I posted above. Talk about 'deluded' and 'obtuse'.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Did you see this thread?
Lack of Louvers [Link]
The argument is not if louvers are good or bad, but rather can they be formed correctly to ensure there is adequate flow area on the center tube. As seen in the link above, half or more of the louvers were not even punched all the way through the metal. If the flow area is restricted too much, then the delta-p across the filter could be high enough to open the bypass valve way too often, which is not really something you want happening.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Did you see this thread?
Lack of Louvers [Link]
The argument is not if louvers are good or bad, but rather can they be formed correctly to ensure there is adequate flow area on the center tube. As seen in the link above, half or more of the louvers were not even punched all the way through the metal. If the flow area is restricted too much, then the delta-p across the filter could be high enough to open the bypass valve way too often, which is not really something you want happening.
Originally Posted By: SirTanon
Furthermore, regarding this whole louvers argument - If you seriously think that louvers would be capable of restricting oil flow, despite the fact that their overall surface area is :
1 - Larger than the inlet holes in the filter's baseplate
2 - Larger than the outlet hole in the filter's baseplate
..and that any ONE louver is in some way small enough to block flow despite the fact that the filter media has FAR smaller 'holes' in it, by definition, in order to be able to actually filter the oil.
If over half of the louver are not even punched through, and the ones that are open are cracked open no more than the thickness of a piece of paper then it's most likely the oil flow would be restricted thereby causing much higher delta-p across the filter which would make the bypass valve open up way more than it should.
Go find a filter like the one IN THE LINK TO THE OTHER THREAD, and do an area calculation on the louvers that were actually open and tell me if that total area is equal to or greater than the base plate hole area or base plate outlet hole (actually the ID of the mounting stud).
Furthermore, regarding this whole louvers argument - If you seriously think that louvers would be capable of restricting oil flow, despite the fact that their overall surface area is :
1 - Larger than the inlet holes in the filter's baseplate
2 - Larger than the outlet hole in the filter's baseplate
..and that any ONE louver is in some way small enough to block flow despite the fact that the filter media has FAR smaller 'holes' in it, by definition, in order to be able to actually filter the oil.
If over half of the louver are not even punched through, and the ones that are open are cracked open no more than the thickness of a piece of paper then it's most likely the oil flow would be restricted thereby causing much higher delta-p across the filter which would make the bypass valve open up way more than it should.
Go find a filter like the one IN THE LINK TO THE OTHER THREAD, and do an area calculation on the louvers that were actually open and tell me if that total area is equal to or greater than the base plate hole area or base plate outlet hole (actually the ID of the mounting stud).
Not sure why you needed to post two responses to this, but okay.. I clearly misread your previous post regarding the louvers to which you were referring.
I looked at the other thread, and I do see what I would agree are many questionable louvers.
In this thread, it seems apparent to me that every 2nd row of louvers faces away from the filter baseplate. While it's hard to really determine from just looking at 2 dimensional pictures, whether they are facing away from us, or actually unpunched, the orientation seems pretty apparent in the filter in THIS thread.
However, having now looked at the pictures in the other thread, and comparing the two side by side (good filter vs. problem filter) it would seem that for that model, they all face the same direction, and thus the 2nd filter is indeed a major concern.
I made a mistake.. I'll admit it.
Clearly, the filter shown in the other post is indicative of a major failure on the manufactuer's part, at least on THAT filter.. and yes, I would be willing to bet that it's not the only one which experienced that level of failure. It does demand scrutiny. It also makes me even more convinced that I'll never put a Puro filter on my car.
It does not, however, turn me off of buying any filter with louvers. I still feel that properly made louvers are just as good as, if not better than, standard punched holes in an oil filter core.
However, I would also like to add that I believe that we all share a certain responsibility to be aware of what we're buying, be it oil, filters, clothing, tomatoes, or anything else. I never mount a filter on my engine without first inspecting it.
IMHO, this would result in catching a bad filter, such as that, from making it onto my car. I will concede, however, that there are far more people who would not even give a second thought to whether or not their oil filter had this problem, and thus potentially lead to damage.
Caveat Emptor, etc.. etc..
I looked at the other thread, and I do see what I would agree are many questionable louvers.
In this thread, it seems apparent to me that every 2nd row of louvers faces away from the filter baseplate. While it's hard to really determine from just looking at 2 dimensional pictures, whether they are facing away from us, or actually unpunched, the orientation seems pretty apparent in the filter in THIS thread.
However, having now looked at the pictures in the other thread, and comparing the two side by side (good filter vs. problem filter) it would seem that for that model, they all face the same direction, and thus the 2nd filter is indeed a major concern.
I made a mistake.. I'll admit it.
Clearly, the filter shown in the other post is indicative of a major failure on the manufactuer's part, at least on THAT filter.. and yes, I would be willing to bet that it's not the only one which experienced that level of failure. It does demand scrutiny. It also makes me even more convinced that I'll never put a Puro filter on my car.
It does not, however, turn me off of buying any filter with louvers. I still feel that properly made louvers are just as good as, if not better than, standard punched holes in an oil filter core.
However, I would also like to add that I believe that we all share a certain responsibility to be aware of what we're buying, be it oil, filters, clothing, tomatoes, or anything else. I never mount a filter on my engine without first inspecting it.
IMHO, this would result in catching a bad filter, such as that, from making it onto my car. I will concede, however, that there are far more people who would not even give a second thought to whether or not their oil filter had this problem, and thus potentially lead to damage.
Caveat Emptor, etc.. etc..
Man I am not impressed... it would be interesting to check a Purolator red and Boss filter. Their own filters.
Very disturbing. Well, I have some Fram orange cans 7317s which have looked really good. So I'm set for awhile anyhow
Very disturbing. Well, I have some Fram orange cans 7317s which have looked really good. So I'm set for awhile anyhow
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Bbhero: when you gonna send me some filters to feed my addiction son?
Originally Posted By: SirTanon
..It does not, however, turn me off of buying any filter with louvers. I still feel that properly made louvers are just as good as, if not better than, standard punched holes in an oil filter core.
However, I would also like to add that I believe that we all share a certain responsibility to be aware of what we're buying, be it oil, filters, clothing, tomatoes, or anything else. I never mount a filter on my engine without first inspecting it....
Excellent points. And once again putting it back on topic, the topic PL filter is an example of louvers done properly and working as designed.
..It does not, however, turn me off of buying any filter with louvers. I still feel that properly made louvers are just as good as, if not better than, standard punched holes in an oil filter core.
However, I would also like to add that I believe that we all share a certain responsibility to be aware of what we're buying, be it oil, filters, clothing, tomatoes, or anything else. I never mount a filter on my engine without first inspecting it....
Excellent points. And once again putting it back on topic, the topic PL filter is an example of louvers done properly and working as designed.
+1 Sayjac
You know what son.... geez let me think about how many used filters I have on hand currently... A Wix 57394 , Fram Ultra 6607, Fram Ultra 7317, Fram TG 7317, Purolator Boss 14610, Purolator Red 14612, Fram orange can 7317 and I believe a Fram Ultra 4967. So yeah I need to send you some of them...
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: robo339
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
By the looks of those tiny louvers its amazing all the oil is able to get though, it may have lived in bypass most of the time..Who knows
Can we give it a rest with the louvers bashing literally every post I've read of yours includes louvers somewhere in it.... they work perfectly fine end of story there are plenty of other things to obsess about
Not in this case ...
Lack of Louvers [Link]
So you have one example..... I mean if you want to go by that logic I've heard of filters failing completely for many different reasons might as well bypass them all together to eliminate the weak point lol
Originally Posted By: robo339
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
By the looks of those tiny louvers its amazing all the oil is able to get though, it may have lived in bypass most of the time..Who knows
Can we give it a rest with the louvers bashing literally every post I've read of yours includes louvers somewhere in it.... they work perfectly fine end of story there are plenty of other things to obsess about
Not in this case ...
Lack of Louvers [Link]
So you have one example..... I mean if you want to go by that logic I've heard of filters failing completely for many different reasons might as well bypass them all together to eliminate the weak point lol
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Originally Posted By: robo339
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: robo339
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
By the looks of those tiny louvers its amazing all the oil is able to get though, it may have lived in bypass most of the time..Who knows
Can we give it a rest with the louvers bashing literally every post I've read of yours includes louvers somewhere in it.... they work perfectly fine end of story there are plenty of other things to obsess about
Not in this case ...
Lack of Louvers [Link]
So you have one example..... I mean if you want to go by that logic I've heard of filters failing completely for many different reasons might as well bypass them all together to eliminate the weak point lol
No, there are actually two examples. Two out of three with the same build date. If you re-read my thread you'll see that I mentioned this. One has 70% and the other 50% of the louvers not perforated. So logic would dictate there is a problem.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: robo339
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
By the looks of those tiny louvers its amazing all the oil is able to get though, it may have lived in bypass most of the time..Who knows
Can we give it a rest with the louvers bashing literally every post I've read of yours includes louvers somewhere in it.... they work perfectly fine end of story there are plenty of other things to obsess about
Not in this case ...
Lack of Louvers [Link]
So you have one example..... I mean if you want to go by that logic I've heard of filters failing completely for many different reasons might as well bypass them all together to eliminate the weak point lol
No, there are actually two examples. Two out of three with the same build date. If you re-read my thread you'll see that I mentioned this. One has 70% and the other 50% of the louvers not perforated. So logic would dictate there is a problem.
That's why I said one example your thread is one problem same brand same filter size same build date not like Puro tear problems multiple tears different dates different models
Originally Posted By: robo339
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: robo339
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
By the looks of those tiny louvers its amazing all the oil is able to get though, it may have lived in bypass most of the time..Who knows
Can we give it a rest with the louvers bashing literally every post I've read of yours includes louvers somewhere in it.... they work perfectly fine end of story there are plenty of other things to obsess about
Not in this case ...
Lack of Louvers [Link]
So you have one example..... I mean if you want to go by that logic I've heard of filters failing completely for many different reasons might as well bypass them all together to eliminate the weak point lol
Like I said, manufacturing louvers correctly can be a 'hit or miss' thing - as we have seen examples of both posted in this forum.
Therefore, it would be wise to closely inspect how well the louvers are formed before buying and sticking that filter on you vehicle.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: robo339
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
By the looks of those tiny louvers its amazing all the oil is able to get though, it may have lived in bypass most of the time..Who knows
Can we give it a rest with the louvers bashing literally every post I've read of yours includes louvers somewhere in it.... they work perfectly fine end of story there are plenty of other things to obsess about
Not in this case ...
Lack of Louvers [Link]
So you have one example..... I mean if you want to go by that logic I've heard of filters failing completely for many different reasons might as well bypass them all together to eliminate the weak point lol
Like I said, manufacturing louvers correctly can be a 'hit or miss' thing - as we have seen examples of both posted in this forum.
Therefore, it would be wise to closely inspect how well the louvers are formed before buying and sticking that filter on you vehicle.
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